[belassi]

Yes. What happened was, the local government offered to help us register our brand, so we happily accepted. Thinking that they had made the application, which costs about $250, we exhibited our range at a Beauty Expo at the Cintermex exhibition halls. We had quite a lot of interest. One guy pestered us to make product for him - he wouldn’t say who he represented - but of course we told him we wanted to build the brand.

A few months later when we went to check on progress we discovered to our dismay that someone had just registered Belessi as a brand and we were denied because it was one letter different. They registered that brand for a range of personal care products identical to ours.

So for the last 6 months we have been waiting to hear if we have our new brand, which I dare not even mention the name of to anyone.

[belassi]

I agree with Bob. Useless. I have a comprehensive set of reports on the personal care market and even so, I can not decide on how we should relaunch; our marketing model, that is. We’ve been test marketing only so far, after having the brand name stolen from under us. Still, we should get our new brand name approved next month, we hope.

[belassi]

I use essential oils (tea tree, sage, lavender) at 0.4% in our most popular shampoo. I don’t have any problem achieving a clear shampoo; the surfactants are a blend, Plantaren APB, based of the ammonium anionic group. Good emulsifiers. Most surfactants are good emulsifiers but some less so, you have to try it and see. But frankly, I think your main difficulty is using low flashpoint EOs with a hot process. I use fragrance oil with our hot process shampoo, emulsify it in one third of the surfactant, and add that in to the mixed batch that’s just beginning to cool. 

[belassi]

they said it is much harder to emulsify plant oils than silicones

wow, this is the reverse of normal. So I guess if you have a product with a lot of silicones it’s good for that. Is it expensive?

[belassi]

Well, first of all, you had better know that cocamide DEA is not nowadays a very popular item with consumers. If you have a high purity source then OK, but it may damage your marketing. Just saying.
Secondly, CDEA merely moves the salt curve to the left. That is why you could use less CAPB. But you could equally well remove the CDEA and adjust the viscosity by adding salt.

Adding any oil will impact the foam. Do you have access to soluble oils? That would be a better choice. Some will say, you can solubilise the oil with polysorbate, and you can, but again, it will impact the foam.

[belassi]

Secondly, if I read your original post correctly, you appear to be testing by adding the thickener / oils to the diluted surfactant mixture. This is much less likely to be successful. The correct procedure when adding an oil to a surfactant is to add it to whichever surfactant is the best emulsifier, in its UNDILUTED state. So for instance, I make a shampoo which is a combination of carboxylic acid, CAPB, and sodium cocoamphoacetate. Of the three, the last one is an excellent emulsifier and so my first process step is to mix that surfactant with the fragrance oil and stir until well emulsfied.

[belassi]

Yes. When any salt goes into solution it dissociates into its ionic state. This means the ions are occupying spaces between the water molecules (this is a simplistic explanation) and so it becomes less easy to dissolve any other substance. For instance, even a very low proportion of salt - say 0.5% - makes it extremely difficult to dissolve NaOH, which is normally a very soluble substance.

[belassi]

solubility issues

[belassi]

Exactly as Bob said. For instance, if I make a 20Kg batch it won’t really take longer than making a 200g lab sample. 

I use a spreadsheet to calculate prices.

1. Sum the material costs per kilogram of finished product.

2. Apply a loss factor to the result (typically 2-5% depending on the process)

3. Add the labour cost per kilo.

4. Divide by the package size to get the cost per package of ingredients and labour.

5. Add the label cost

6. Add the package cost

7. Multiply by 6

That will give you a retail price. If you find it is uncompetitive with similar products, then you’re in the wrong market.

[belassi]

“Salt”? Where is the salt?

Calcium carbonate is quite basic. Is the thickener you’re using suitable for use in a basic environment?

[belassi]

One thing I learned is: don’t try to compete in a cheap product area. I can equally well design a body wash or an anti-aging cream. You can find adequate body wash in a pump bottle for heaven’s sake, for a dollar. Could I source just the pump bottle alone for 16 cents? Of course not! There is no point in my trying to compete in that market sector, at least not until I am buying pump bottles in 10,000-off.

[belassi]

Start by checking out the competition. First decide what product line is your competitor. Then check the retail prices for those products. Then divide the prices by six. The resulting amount is roughly your upper limit for manufacturing and distribution (including ALL costs.)

[belassi]

I think your proposed costs are way too high.To give you an example, I would put an upper limit of 75 cents on the contents for a 240mL body wash.

[belassi]

The essential oil may itself be an adequate preservative. Check the MIC levels for inhibition of fungal and bacterial. Many are in the range of 0.1-0.2% only. Then do a challenge test.

[belassi]

Try about 10%SLES and enough betaine to create a medium thick solution. Disperse some corn starch in some extra water and add, stirring well. Add about 5% glycerin and mix. My dogs have been chasing the bubbles all over the garden.

[belassi]

1. I don’t see any pH adjustment in there, and as I recall cocamide DEA is very basic. Have you measured the pH of the mixture?

2. Adding 1.6% oil to a surfactant mixture will probably result in a cloudy solution. The oils are being emulsified, not solubilised, and that’s what you see. If you want to add refattening, then there are quite a few products that will do that, and give a clear solution. For instance, Lamesoft PO-65, but I don’t recommend that because of its glucoside content, it caused allergies to several of my customers.

[belassi]

Vitamin E belongs in the oil phase.

[belassi]

The only downside will be that I will need to reformulate about 7 products.

[belassi]

I think I will formulate some today just for fun. I’ll try using some Glucamate VLT to increase the film strength. So if you never hear from me again, it will be because I have been carried away by the wind.

[belassi]

Is there any way you can describe what it is that each of these ingredients bring to the table? Obviously we know what water is but everything else is a bit strange to us. 

There is no way you will ever understand how to combine ingredients until you play with each one to discover its properties. This obviously involves a lot of time and wasted materials, but that’s what cosmetic chemistry is about. For instance I don’t know what Ceteareth-25 is like, but I wouldn’t ask the people here; I would get a sample and begin trying test formulae with it. And then, when I ran into trouble, I would ask why, here.

[belassi]

When we designed our labels we analysed the content of common brands in the supermarkets and used the same format, which includes a note as to discontinue use if reactions occur.

[belassi]

Though I hate to say this, I have been able to source good quality eye makeup from China. Not all of it is bad. I know this isn’t what you’re looking for, but bear in mind, people like me who import decent quality Chinese powder and resell it at an attractive price will be competing with you.

[belassi]

The question is, WHY is it fatal if inhaled? Some things that are fatal if inhaled have no minimum dose (eg, blue asbestos).

[belassi]

I wonder if a cross linked polymer would work even better than glycerin. 

[belassi]

Depends on the ingredients as Perry noted.