Adamnfineman
Forum Replies Created
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Are you making this at home for yourself or are you making production batches to sell commercially? If it’s the latter, what would be your expected batch size?
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Ask your client if they’d be open to having two products instead of one. If you have a high enough amount of magnesium sulfate, you can call your product “magnesium oil”. We have a product that is 60/40 magnesium/water, it has a slippery oily feel and people claim it helps their aches and pains.
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We’ve used Oilkemia 5S Polymer (Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride (and) Polyurethane-79) to gel oils in the past. 3% gave a soft gel that could be pumped or squeezed out of a bottle. 5% gave a firmer, jello-like consistency.
I haven’t tried this in conjunction with any surfactants.
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They lie. Either due to malice or ignorance but they lie.
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I’ve been doing some reading on the use of HLD (Hydrophilic Lipophilic Difference) instead of HLB. I’m about halfway through the book and it points out the flaws of HLB and how HLD could be used to fill in the gaps if you have the right information. Even if you don’t have the information to plug into HLD, the theory in the book is useful and would answer some of your questions.
https://www.stevenabbott.co.uk/practical-surfactants/the-book.php
stevenabbott.co.uk
The Book | Practical Surfactants Science | Prof Steven Abbott
Surfactant Science: Principles and Practice free eBook
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I was looking into the same issue a few years ago. @MarkBroussard commented on my post advocating for Euxyl PE 9010. He used it in an eczema suite and it was the best tolerated option. As others mentioned in the post, it isn’t enough on its own to be considered a broad spectrum preservative and should be accompanied by a chelator and something to target fungi.
chemistscorner.com
Does anyone have experience with Colloidal Oatmeal Lotion formulation for eczema? - Chemists Corner
I'm interested in making a product similar to Cetaphil's Baby Eczema Soothing Colloidal Oatmeal Lotion. I looked through the forum and still had a couple…
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Good morning Johnny,
I’m glad I could help. Keep us posted on how your new batches turn out.
Thanks! I hope you had a good weekend.
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You’re very welcome. I realized that I didn’t address your original questions. As Dr. Thair said, there are too many variables to give a concrete set of instructions. Instead, I’ll describe the process I used last week.
I heated up the water and oil phases separately to 85-90°C. The oil phase generally gets into the temperature range first; I let it hit 90° then maintained temperature. As soon as the water reached 85°, I added the oil phase to the water phase slowly. The heating time varies depending on which hot plate I use. After blending the phases, I checked the temperature probe and propeller for any stuck solids, once everything seemed visually homogenous I turned off the heat and began cooling slowly while still on the hot plate.
I’d estimate around 10 minutes of mixing after adding the oil phase for a 200g batch before I began cooling, maybe more if there were solids that needed to be melted. The mixing speed should be high enough to bring material from the surface to the bottom, but not enough to create a vortex and entrap air. Once the temperature reached 70°, I added the premixed solublizer/fragrance/preservatives which usually dropped my temperature to 60-65°. I’ll mix for a minute or three then hot pour around 60°. A couple minutes after pouring I skimmed the surface of the product with a metal spatula to remove that layer of bubbles. The last step isn’t necessary but it gives the product a cleaner look for clients. I’d estimate the time from start to finish to be about an hour.
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This reply was modified 1 month ago by Adamnfineman. Reason: Typo
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This reply was modified 1 month ago by
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Hi Johnny,
I’ve found that when making small batches of ceteareth-25 based pomades evaporation is your enemy. When I make hot process batches on the bench I usually add 5% extra water to counteract it. But with pomades like this I add anywhere from 7-10% more water because of the temperature required to melt the C-25. I would also recommend increasing you batch size so that the amount of water lost relative to your batch size is less impactful and you can get a more consistent product.
Coincidentally, I just made 5 batches of almost the exact same formula today (a few more claim ingredients and another fixative added). Each has a different fragrance and are being sent out for client evaluation. How do you feel about your level of fragrance? We’re using 0.35% so depending on the scent, yours might be a bit high for some.
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What’s your pH? What’s your preservative?
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Thanks Phil.
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I’m glad I could be of some help. Good luck with your stinky product!
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Have you asked other people how they feel about the smell? Not just asking if they notice it, but whether or not it’s a deal breaker for them. I’ve noticed that when I spend a long time on a product I can end up being overly critical of it after a while.
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How would you describe the smell? When I make/use fragrance free products I expect that they will smell like their raw materials, which might not be very pleasant. I thought consumers accepted that possibility when choosing the fragrance free option.
Have you tried requesting samples from other suppliers?
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I agree, I’ll send an email out so my objection is documented.
This is one of our larger clients who have around two dozen SKUs and millions of pieces/year. They can afford some new labels.
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This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by Adamnfineman.
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This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by
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Thank you for the information. Now I know there are no loopholes to hide behind for EU markets. Unfortunately, this is being marketed in the US so they’ll be able to legally have their way.
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That would be the most prudent course. But that would also be the more costly one since they’d have to get rid of their existing labels or place a label over the old ones.
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I’d also like to put it on the label, but it doesn’t seem like they’re going to go that route. All ingredients should be on the label in case someone wants to avoid citric acid for whatever reason (allergies, chemophobia, or esperidoeidiphobia)
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I suppose if an ingredient is not considered functional it would fall under § 701.3 (L) (2) (iii) as a processing aid? I wouldn’t exactly call the level used insignificant (0.65%) but I can see it being called so.
“Substances that are added to a cosmetic during the processing of such cosmetic for their technical and functional effect in the processing but are present in the finished cosmetic at insignificant levels and do not have any technical or functional effect in that cosmetic.”
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Hi paprik,
Thank you for your time.
Why is pH adjusting not considered functional? Whereas adjusting the viscosity or clarity of a product is?
Do you know where I can find a source for not including pH adjusters in the LOI?
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You’re welcome
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The link to the book is on the page linked in my original message, it’s free and open to the public. Here’s the link to the pdf.
https://www.stevenabbott.co.uk/_downloads/Surfactant%20Science%20Principles%20and%20Practice.pdf
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That sounds like quite the ordeal you had to go through. I’m glad to hear you found something that works for you.
This formula is for personal use only and has remained pretty similar to what I posted earlier.
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I don’t see Jeecide AA or its INCI mentioned here.
To answer your question I did not use it. I ended up taking @Abdullah‘s suggestion of phenoxyethanol + parabens + EDTA. I didn’t have any issue with this blend as far as sensitization or preservative failure.