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Why preservatives matter! Natural isn’t necessarily better.
36 hours after streaking the colonies started ????
was testing Leucidal SF with AMTicide Coconut both at 3%. In an o/w.Lotion looks “fine” in the jar. This is why natural isn’t always better!
Agar is LB -
23 Replies
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Yeah, the standard preservatives have been in use for a long time for good reason.
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Better living through Chemistry!Perry, I’m tempted to streak Leucidal at 100% onto a plate and see if anything grows.
Sadly, I have that low of confidence in this product line. Was fun to play with it though.I have read that others have had success with their product line with boosters and co-preservatives added in. I feel that with as much mass that these products take in the formulation to be “effective”, one is better off just going another route. -
Given enough effort and tinkering, you may be able to get “natural” preservatives to pass a preservative efficacy test. So, it’s not surprising that sometimes people can get it to work in their system. The Leucidal manufacturers certainly have been able to get systems for which it protects the formula
But the whole idea of a preservative is that it should work under the most extreme conditions the product might be exposed to by a consumer. Simply passing a test once doesn’t mean that the product is safe to use. I’m highly skeptical of any preservative that hasn’t had a couple decades of testing under its belt.
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Thanks for sharing! I plan on using Leucidal for one of my products, I see that I’ll need to stock up on some more dip slides…
Generally speaking, how do you introduce bacteria into your products before swiping? So far I’ve just been using non-sterile tools for swiping, but I don’t feel like that’s reliable enough to make a prediction for a PET.
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Are the streaks a combination of the leucidal and pathogens?
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Agate said:Thanks for sharing! I plan on using Leucidal for one of my products, I see that I’ll need to stock up on some more dip slides…
Generally speaking, how do you introduce bacteria into your products before swiping? So far I’ve just been using non-sterile tools for swiping, but I don’t feel like that’s reliable enough to make a prediction for a PET.
Agate,I did not introduce bacteria into my product. I made the product about a month ago and decided to streak it to see what (if anything) would grow after a month of “shelf time”. I thought about ordering the dipslides, but prefer to make my own plates because they are less expensive for me.Also streaked two other products at the same time and those plates look clear so far! The preservatives in those two formulations are phenethyl alcohol, caprylyl glycol, pentylene glycol, benzoic acid and sodium benzoate. -
LuisJavier said:Are the streaks a combination of the leucidal and pathogens?
No, just the formulation including 3% each of the leucidal products. I haven’t gotten to the point of introducing pathogens. And I’m not sure I will go that route. For me it’s good enough if nothing grows within 30 days. I’m a hobbyist (with a chemistry degree).
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Agate said:Thanks for sharing! I plan on using Leucidal for one of my products, I see that I’ll need to stock up on some more dip slides…
Generally speaking, how do you introduce bacteria into your products before swiping? So far I’ve just been using non-sterile tools for swiping, but I don’t feel like that’s reliable enough to make a prediction for a PET.
Agate,I forgot to mention, that you MUST use sterile tools for swiping. 70% ethanol will work. -
Very interesting, thanks. I’ll have to test my five year samples… we were using parabens in those days. I opened one a few weeks ago and it still seemed perfect. Not that I am putting a 5 year old emulsion on my skin.
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Belassi said:Very interesting, thanks. I’ll have to test my five year samples… we were using parabens in those days. I opened one a few weeks ago and it still seemed perfect. Not that I am putting a 5 year old emulsion on my skin.You used parabens and lived to tell the tale?
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Parabens was so useful before consumers turned against it. Inexpensive. Didn’t appear to cause sensitisation. Methyl for the water phase and higher ones like propyl for the oil phase. Low % was effective. Not pH sensitive. Long lasting effect. Odour free. And so on. (sigh)
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I can only imagine. The good old days are a thing of the past. Now here we are using radish root ferment filtrate (i still cant even figure out what the heck is in the filtrate or what’s used to “filter” it). If anyone knows feel free to chime in.
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That is a great demonstration of the failures of these preservatives.I always think that these pictures of bacteria are like art!
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@Belassi - I don’t think consumers turned against parabens. It was marketers and consumers just followed. In truth, I don’t think consumers care about the topic. They just keep getting the message thrown in their face to make them think it is a thing. I think eventually parabens will be back in favor. They are just too beneficial, effective and safe for them to be gone from cosmetics.
The ferment filtrate is the liquid in which the radish root is fermented.
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Perry said:@Belassi - I don’t think consumers turned against parabens. It was marketers and consumers just followed. In truth, I don’t think consumers care about the topic. They just keep getting the message thrown in their face to make them think it is a thing. I think eventually parabens will be back in favor. They are just too beneficial, effective and safe for them to be gone from cosmetics.
The ferment filtrate is the liquid in which the radish root is fermented.
Perry,What I mean to say, what else is coupled along with the radish root ferment filtrate?I feel like it’s a situation similar to “grapefruit seed extract”.thoughts? -
ozgirl said:That is a great demonstration of the failures of these preservatives.I always think that these pictures of bacteria are like art!
Personally, I prefer Picasso to ecoli.
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@shechemie - yes, grapefruit seed extract really just has parabens hidden in it.
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I had this problem with AMTcide and Leudical. It passed PET, but then every single batch went mouldy. Never again.
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GabyD said:I had this problem with AMTcide and Leudical. It passed PET, but then every single batch went mouldy. Never again.
Sorry you had to deal with that! Out of curiosity, do you know the criteria of the testing done and at what point it failed? I’m surprised that your product initially passed PET.
I started to see bacterial colonies about 36 hours after streaking mine. My product had been bottled for 30ish days for I streaked it. The agar I used was for bacteria growth. Lord only knows what a fungal plate would look like ????.
The phethyl alcohol cocktail is still clear ???????????????????? -
phenylethyl alcohol is such an interesting preservative/aroma material to me. How does it differ from phenoxyethanol in terms of antibiotic protection?
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LuisJavier said:phenylethyl alcohol is such an interesting preservative/aroma material to me. How does it differ from phenoxyethanol in terms of antibiotic protection?
I don’t know off the top of my head. I’d have to read up, but perhaps someone else knows the quick answer to your question….
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shechemie said:GabyD said:I had this problem with AMTcide and Leudical. It passed PET, but then every single batch went mouldy. Never again.
Sorry you had to deal with that! Out of curiosity, do you know the criteria of the testing done and at what point it failed? I’m surprised that your product initially passed PET.
I started to see bacterial colonies about 36 hours after streaking mine. My product had been bottled for 30ish days for I streaked it. The agar I used was for bacteria growth. Lord only knows what a fungal plate would look like ????.
The phethyl alcohol cocktail is still clear ????????????????????Hi there,
It passed the whole PET, which I think was 4 weeks. The original samples were made by our formulator and she sent them to the UK for testing.
I then made the formulas myself following her instructions to the letter. The creams looked good at first, but then about 2 weeks later were completely mouldy. It was horrible.
I wondered if my lab or equipment were not clean enough and bleached everything, but actually I don’t think it was that as the same thing happened again. I just don’t think the preservatives were very good.
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LuisJavier said:phenylethyl alcohol is such an interesting preservative/aroma material to me. How does it differ from phenoxyethanol in terms of antibiotic protection?
This may help: https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/6164/phenoxyethanol-replaced-by-phenethyl-alcohol
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