Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating When to add ~25% cold water in this emulsion?

  • When to add ~25% cold water in this emulsion?

    Posted by Abdullah on January 13, 2025 at 10:56 pm

    In a simple LGN emulsion

    1% BTMS active

    3% cetearyl alcohol

    Water

    When water is heated to 90°c, then BTMS is added, then melted FA is added and homogenized for 5 minutes.

    adding ~25% cold water to this to cool the batch faster was reducing temperature ~15°c.

    Now when should i add this 25% cold water?

    A: when batch is hot(80-90°c) to reduce temperature to (65-75°c)

    B: when batch is a little cold (~65°c) to reduce temperature to (~50°c)

    C: below 50°c to reduce temperature to 30-35°c.

    Note: I have noticed that in the batches that we have added cold water earlier, they are a bit thicker( dont have viscometer, just feel during use).

    Abdullah replied 1 month ago 2 Members · 8 Replies
  • 8 Replies
  • ketchito

    Member
    January 15, 2025 at 5:29 am

    I’d add it in the phase B, since you need to give your emulsion time to build some identity, so, when disturbed, it can use its “memory” to recover its structure. Usually, cooling down water is pushed inside the lamellar structure which swells, but if your structure is not formed yet, then that water will remain as free water or maybe even hydrating some free fatty alcohols (which might explain the high viscosity you see when adding at high T, but the stability and final texture might suffer).

    • Abdullah

      Entrepreneur
      January 15, 2025 at 8:37 pm

      Thanks

      At what temperature do structures usually form?

      Currently i make two emulsions.

      BTMS+ FA which is heated to 90°c.

      SLS+FA which is heated to 60°c.

  • ketchito

    Member
    January 16, 2025 at 7:29 am

    At the emulsion temperature, you ensure there are enough colisions and energy…it’s like you have all the instructions then to organize themselves. Some organization occurs here, but since there’s quite some free energy, there’s also some exchange of molecules. It’s during cool down where the main arrangement happens. That’s why shear here is not advisable (would you shake the table while playing jenga?). I always take between the end of the emulsion process and around 55-60°C as the time where “the baby” learns how to walk. From then on, some high mixing could happen (like in UL’s patent), but shortly, and not so low in T so the emulsion has time to recover in case there’s some disturbance.

    • Abdullah

      Entrepreneur
      January 16, 2025 at 11:06 pm

      So it is better to take a break from high shear between 55-60°c?

      Is it 55-60°c because of melting point of fatty alcohol or they don’t have any connection?

  • ketchito

    Member
    January 17, 2025 at 11:22 am

    If you emulsify at 80°C, then after that and till around 55-60°C, you should remove high shear. In fact, you wouldn’t need high shear after the emulsion. Sometimes (like in UL’s patent), it helps to use some high shear for a couple of minutes but that’s about it.

    • Abdullah

      Entrepreneur
      January 18, 2025 at 12:57 am

      Thanks

      What if we don’t mix it at all after homogenization until temperature is down to 50°c?

      Is it necessary to slow mix?

      • ketchito

        Member
        January 20, 2025 at 10:35 am

        I did that once, and the product was thicker but rough. Also, not mixing makes the cooling process longer.

        • Abdullah

          Entrepreneur
          January 20, 2025 at 8:25 pm

          Thanks a lot

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