What do you think of this hair conditioner?

Hair

What do you think of this hair conditioner?

Posted by smok on August 7, 2019 at 11:11 am

Hi all

What do you think about this hair conditioner?
18 L aqua
cetyl alcoohol 1kg
poly7 1kg
citic acide
glycirine 100g
consevateur

smok replied 5 years, 4 months ago 6 Members · 18 Replies
18 Replies

ngarayeva001

Member
August 7, 2019 at 12:06 pm

Please write it in %. It’s impossible to read in liters and grams. Does it even equal 100%?
Question #1: where is your emulsifier?
Question #2: what do you think glycerine is doing there?
Question #3: citric acid, ok nice. what it the pH?
OldPerry

Member
August 7, 2019 at 12:32 pm

It won’t be very conditioning. You need a cationic surfactant like Cetrimonium Chloride. And the questions @ngarayeva001 has posted are relevant too.
Pharma

Member
August 7, 2019 at 12:37 pm

What is poly7? Polyquaternium 7?

100g glycerol in approximately 20 kg product… why/what for? Is it part of the preservative blend you’re using?
smok

Member
August 7, 2019 at 1:23 pm

ngarayeva001 said:

Please write it in %. It’s impossible to read in liters and grams. Does it even equal 100%?
Question #1: where is your emulsifier?
Question #2: what do you think glycerine is doing there?
Question #3: citric acid, ok nice. what it the pH?

aqua
cetyl alcoohol 0.5%

Cetrimonium Chloride 0.5%Perry said:
ph 5.5
glycine to blind parfum
consevateurPharma said:

What is poly7? Polyquaternium 7?

100g glycerol in approximately 20 kg product… why/what for? Is it part of the preservative blend you’re using?

my poly 7 is myCetrimonium Chloride glycirine to blind parfum

It won’t be very conditioning. You need a cationic surfactant like Cetrimonium Chloride. And the questions @ngarayeva001 has posted are relevant too.

my poly 7 is myCetrimonium Chloride
smok

Member
August 7, 2019 at 1:37 pm

ngarayeva001 said:

Please write it in %. It’s impossible to read in liters and grams. Does it even equal 100%?
Question #1: where is your emulsifier?
Question #2: what do you think glycerine is doing there?
Question #3: citric acid, ok nice. what it the pH?

why i need emulsion?
ngarayeva001

Member
August 7, 2019 at 1:48 pm

You are mixing cetyl alcohol, an oil soluble fatty alcohol, with water. The only way to do that known to me is to form an emulsion.

If you want to make a conditioning hair spray however, exclude cetyl alcohol and just add Polyquaternium 7 to water + preservative and you will be ok.
smok

Member
August 7, 2019 at 1:58 pm

ngarayeva001 said:

You are mixing cetyl alcohol, an oil soluble fatty alcohol, with water. The only way to do that known to me is to form an emulsion.

If you want to make a conditioning hair spray however, exclude cetyl alcohol and just add Polyquaternium 7 to water + preservative and you will be ok.

0.5% Polyquaternium 7 is it enouth to or 1%
ngarayeva001

Member
August 7, 2019 at 3:55 pm

Enough for what? I doubt you will see any difference between 0.5% and 1%.
sven

Member
August 7, 2019 at 4:19 pm

Maybe add some polysorbate 60 to create an emulsion with the cetyl alcohol?. There are many other more modern emulsifiers though
ngarayeva001

Member
August 7, 2019 at 5:08 pm

If this is a conventional hair conditioner you either need behentrimonium chloride or behentrimonium methosulfate as an emulsifier.
If it’s a hair spray, that cetyl alcohol has no purpose.

Polysorbate 60 will probably work with cetyl alcohol as an emulsifier (subject to other adjustments to the formula) but that would be some O/W generic lotion not a conditioner.
Gunther

Member
August 7, 2019 at 7:11 pm

Cetrimonium or behentrimonium is needed both as a hair conditioner, and as en emulsifier for cetyl alcohol.

I actually tried making a clear, no fatty-alcohol spray leave-on conditioner and somehow it doesn’t feel as conditioning as those with fatty alcohols.
I wonder why, but that’s why I found.

Once you have a proper emulsifier you can add silicones, or coconut oil for leave-on conditioners.

If you can find Polyquaternium-10, that’s way more conditioning than PQ-7 but make sure it doesn’t increase viscosity too much.
ngarayeva001

Member
August 7, 2019 at 8:46 pm

@Gunther, I managed to make a spray that is quite conditioning actually. 1% of PQ10, Amodimethicone (emulsion), PQ7, and PEG-8 Dimethicone. I will copy the formula tomorrow morning. But as you mentioned pq10 causes a bit of an issue with viscosity and it doesn’t spray well. I rub it in my hands and apply on wet hair.
smok

Member
August 8, 2019 at 10:00 am

Gunther said:

Cetrimonium or behentrimonium is needed both as a hair conditioner, and as en emulsifier for cetyl alcohol.

I actually tried making a clear, no fatty-alcohol spray leave-on conditioner and somehow it doesn’t feel as conditioning as those with fatty alcohols.
I wonder why, but that’s why I found.

Once you have a proper emulsifier you can add silicones, or coconut oil for leave-on conditioners.

If you can find Polyquaternium-10, that’s way more conditioning than PQ-7 but make sure it doesn’t increase viscosity too much.

we can increase viscosity with other product

righte ?

ngarayeva001

Member

August 8, 2019 at 10:36 am

INCI	%
Aqua	80.5%
Amodimethicone (emulsion)	5.0%
PEG-8 Dimethicone	7.0%
Polyquat 7	1.5%
Glycerin	3.0%
Polyquat 10	1.0%
Cetrimonium Chloride (30%)	1.0%

Germaben II	1.0%

Very conditioning spray. I even think I need to make it less conditioning because it’s not easy to apply like that.

Gunther

Member

August 8, 2019 at 5:33 pm

ngarayeva001 said:

@Gunther

INCI %

Aqua 80.5%

Amodimethicone (emulsion) 5.0%

PEG-8
Dimethicone 7.0%

Polyquat 7 1.5%

Glycerin 3.0%

Polyquat 10 1.0%

Cetrimonium
Chloride (30%) 1.0%

Germaben II 1.0%

Very conditioning spray. I even think I need to make it less conditioning because it’s not easy to apply like that.

Maybe some extra CETAC can further lower the viscosity?
How much net active Amodimethicone the emulsion contains?

Interesting formula. I will try replicating it.
I’m surprised that so much PQ-10 doesn’t leave a sticky residue on hair. But at the end you have to try the formula yourself.

ngarayeva001

Member
August 8, 2019 at 8:52 pm

It is not sticky but as I said it’s a bit too concentrated. I will probably increase water and reduce everything else to be able to apply more. It’s a good combination overall
ngarayeva001

Member
August 8, 2019 at 8:55 pm

Amodimethicone concentration is 28-36%

smok

Member

August 9, 2019 at 6:09 pm

Gunther said:

ngarayeva001 said:

@Gunther

INCI %

Aqua 80.5%

Amodimethicone (emulsion) 5.0%

PEG-8
Dimethicone 7.0%

Polyquat 7 1.5%

Glycerin 3.0%

Polyquat 10 1.0%

Cetrimonium
Chloride (30%) 1.0%

Germaben II 1.0%

Very conditioning spray. I even think I need to make it less conditioning because it’s not easy to apply like that.

Maybe some extra CETAC can further lower the viscosity?
How much net active Amodimethicone the emulsion contains?

Interesting formula. I will try replicating it.
I’m surprised that so much PQ-10 doesn’t leave a sticky residue on hair. But at the end you have to try the formula yourself.

ngarayeva001 said:

@Gunther

INCI %

Aqua 80.5%

Amodimethicone (emulsion) 5.0%

PEG-8
Dimethicone 7.0%

Polyquat 7 1.5%

Glycerin 3.0%

Polyquat 10 1.0%

Cetrimonium
Chloride (30%) 1.0%

Germaben II 1.0%

Very conditioning spray. I even think I need to make it less conditioning because it’s not easy to apply like that.

I think it’s the same product Cetrimonium Chloride Amodimethicone
https://www.makingcosmetics.com/Amodimethicone_p_975.html?locale=en