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What are the benchmark textures in emulsion cosmetics for face and body…that use gums?
I seem to have come to a cross roads in my formulation. Much of what I am currently working on will require gums vs polymerics. I have learned from some of the wonderful contributors on this site, how to make beautiful textures based on the polymerics.
For some reason, I like to keep a basic continuity in my products, across the board. So my very functional products are taking me back to gums. I would like to drag my textural beauties (albeit kicking and screaming) along for the ride. (If possible.)
I am absolutely not someone who ‘dupes’, in fact the concept irritates me. However….I absolutely believe you can learn from the structural bones of good products and textures by studying the best of the best.
So I would like to hear of some moisturizing products (face/body/hand) that have blown you away with texture….and you were even more blown away when you looked at the INCI and found no polymerics….but gum and some accompanying enhancers. By no means am I asking the gum to do the heavy lifting…just to be present without bringing negative baggage to the party.
My preliminary thought will be to use one of these three combos:
Siligel (Xanthan Gum, Lecithin, Sclerotium Gum, Pullulan)
Solagum AX (Acacia Senegal Gum & Xanthan Gum)
or
A 50/50 blend of Xanthan and Sclerotium.I use all the magic pixie dust and liquid slip and slide ingredients, so mainly I need viscosity enhancement without the “too much X-gum” feel.
Thank you.
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18 Replies
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I’m not sure I understand your question well.
I will name a few that I ( kind of ) like, not really blown away or anything.Clarins hand and nail
Burt’s Bees baobab oil ultimate care hand cream
Eucerin Advanced repair hand - red cap tube
La Roche-Posay Cicaplast baume B5If i have to pick one, I would say La Roche-Posay.
Personally I don’t like high gum or gums in emulsion other than pullulan ( is pullulan a gum? I don’t know ).
Have you tried wax, rice bran wax is quite nice. -
In my experience small amounts of thickeners in different phases and different types make a lot of improvement in viscosity and feel than adding too much thickener in one phase or one type.
If you add even 1% wax to your emulsion it increase viscosity dramatically but i don’t like how they feel. Maybe because i have only used beeswax.
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Abdullah said:In my experience small amounts of thickeners in different phases and different types make a lot of improvement in viscosity and feel than adding too much thickener in one phase or one type.If you add even 1% wax to your emulsion it increase viscosity dramatically but i don’t like how they feel. Maybe because i have only used beeswax.
Agree completely…not only on thickeners…..but I also follow this principle in emollients, humectants and barrier function as well. So I create each structural segment of a good moisturizer with multiple pieces. So wax (I use Candelilla) never above .5%, and gums never above .25%
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Pattsi said:I’m not sure I understand your question well.
I will name a few that I ( kind of ) like, not really blown away or anything.Clarins hand and nail
Burt’s Bees baobab oil ultimate care hand cream
Eucerin Advanced repair hand - red cap tube
La Roche-Posay Cicaplast baume B5If i have to pick one, I would say La Roche-Posay.
Personally I don’t like high gum or gums in emulsion other than pullulan ( is pullulan a gum? I don’t know ).
Have you tried wax, rice bran wax is quite nice.Thank for the list…I will look through them.
So am I understanding you correctly…. The only products that have impressed you (texturally)…. always included polymeric emulsifiers?
I do not intend on using gums at a high rate. I get all I am asking for with .2-.25%.
When you mention pullulan…is that by itself…or in conjunction with gums? The marketing blurbs mention a ‘synergy’ with the gums.
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I’m not sure if you are creating products for yourself or for customers, but the better people to answer a subjective question like this is your customers. This really comes down to a preference.
If you objectively look at the question then the answer for most people could be found in looking at what products most people use. For an online customer brands like CeraVe, Aveeno, and Jergens seems to be the best.
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Perry said:I’m not sure if you are creating products for yourself or for customers, but the better people to answer a subjective question like this is your customers. This really comes down to a preference.
If you objectively look at the question then the answer for most people could be found in looking at what products most people use. For an online customer brands like CeraVe, Aveeno, and Jergens seems to be the best.
But isn’t what most people use….directly correlated to marketing budgets, and locations available for purchase?
And someone on this forum…
…. often says the consumer can not feel the minor nuances in formulation, which I would agree with. So what I am was asking…in a nutshell….was on a pure textural platform….who has done a good job with using gums…vs polymerics (amongst those with the big marketing budgets).As I looked through some big name formulas…I get the impression… a good supporting cast…can create a ‘good enough’ product to compete with the polymerics???
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Honestly, (texturally) I’m not impressed with any hand cream or face or body cream anymore weather polymeric or not.I categorized them to only “quite nice / ok-ish / suck”.Don’t get me wrong, I’m on the quest to find cream that can wow me physically or mentally.
Pullulan cream I referred to, was pullulan alone (with or without low xanthan in the formula I can’t remember), nice temporary tightening film-forming effect, felt quite nice on both face and hands but it wasn’t put on sale, it’s just a test formula.
In thick emulsion like cream or butter, 0.2 normal grade xanthan or fantasy gums make no differences on texture and skin feel if your emollient and other part is good enough. The best answer you can get, you might have to try them yourself.
In thinner emulsion like lotion, I can’t say for certain there will be a difference or not from different gum or gums, don’t have much experience with gum in lotion, mostly polymers.Only in water product like gel, serum, toner, spray, blabla - I can feel a hugh difference from different gum or gums even at 0.1 or lower, even when water phase emollient was added. I’m really picky with this type of product.
Graillotion said:gums…vs polymericsa ‘good enough’ product to compete with the polymerics???
It’s not a one winner situation, they have different characteristic textures for different targeted consumers.
Graillotion said:For some reason, I like to keep a basic continuity in my products, across the board. So my very functional products are taking me back to gums. I would like to drag my textural beauties (albeit kicking and screaming) along for the ride. (If possible.)Normally, brand(s) would carry their branding or signature or DNA through out the line. If you rely on only texture as branding, it might be a bit hard to build a brand. But I know you also have other stuffs up in your sleeves too lol.
Graillotion said:who has done a good job with using gums…vs polymerics (amongst those with the big marketing budgets).
Those with the big enough budgets would normally have creams with different textures to please every targeted segments.
Sorry that my answer is not chemistry related.Cheers.
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Hi Graillotion, I would say, there are no gums that help texturize same as polymerics, especially if you’d like to have a light cream in a jar. There’s no problem with rich creams.
I also have never tested nice “all natural” bodylotion without polymerics and silicons because the soaping is too bad I just can’t stand it. Unfortunately Germany goes the natural road at the moment: Natrue or Cosmos certified it’s a nightmare.We’ve tested many natural gums and gellating agents, one combination wich gives a good viscosity and quite nice texture is xanthan gum & gellan gum (80:20). At the moment this is my favorite and works well, I’ve managed to formulate some moisturizers I really enjoy.
There is definitely a synergy between xanthan gum and carrob gum i just haven’t found the right persentage that I would be pleased about. Carrob gum changes the texture with a very small percentage, be carefull there if you try it out.I wasn’t a fan of Solagum AX, I must say.
Everything I tested with pullulan in it has a pilling effect but it’s a known for an imediate tightening because of the film forming..P.S. I must say, I’m fan of yours
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@Ilsme how do you compare xanthan gum & gellan gum 8:2 vs Solagum AX at same usage rate suppose 0.5% for skin feel, texture, viscosity and emulsion stability?
At what percentage did you use xanthan gum & gellan gum 8:2?
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Ilsme said:Hi Graillotion, I would say, there are no gums that help texturize same as polymerics, especially if you’d like to have a light cream in a jar. There’s no problem with rich creams.
I also have never tested nice “all natural” bodylotion without polymerics and silicons because the soaping is too bad I just can’t stand it. Unfortunately Germany goes the natural road at the moment: Natrue or Cosmos certified it’s a nightmare.We’ve tested many natural gums and gellating agents, one combination wich gives a good viscosity and quite nice texture is xanthan gum & gellan gum (80:20). At the moment this is my favorite and works well, I’ve managed to formulate some moisturizers I really enjoy.
There is definitely a synergy between xanthan gum and carrob gum i just haven’t found the right persentage that I would be pleased about. Carrob gum changes the texture with a very small percentage, be carefull there if you try it out.I wasn’t a fan of Solagum AX, I must say.
Everything I tested with pullulan in it has a pilling effect but it’s a known for an imediate tightening because of the film forming..P.S. I must say, I’m fan of yours
Thank you for your feedback. To be quite honest…I have not heard of gellan gum. I do read that there are two versions….low acyl and high acyl. Which version are you using in cosmetics?
So something like Siligel, which has a very small amount of pullulan…were you still finding pilling? Did you ever test Siligel?
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I’m gonna guess… High acyl….after viewing this chart:
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Graillotion said:I’m gonna guess… High acyl….after viewing this chart:
Where did you get this chart?????
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Abdullah said:@Ilsme how do you compare xanthan gum & gellan gum 8:2 vs Solagum AX at same usage rate suppose 0.5% for skin feel, texture, viscosity and emulsion stability?
At what percentage did you use xanthan gum & gellan gum 8:2?
I didn’t have any instabilities. Gellan gum helps to increase the viscosity comparing to Solagum AX, which gave more stringy cream (or lotion). I see many formulators working with Solagum AX but imo the emulsion just doesn’t look “pretty”.
The percentage I used of the mixture depends on the viskosity I want to achieve.
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Graillotion said:Thank you for your feedback. To be quite honest…I have not heard of gellan gum. I do read that there are two versions….low acyl and high acyl. Which version are you using in cosmetics?
So something like Siligel, which has a very small amount of pullulan…were you still finding pilling? Did you ever test Siligel?
It is HA Gellan Gum.
I myself haven’t worked with Siligel but I tried my colleagues product. It did pill a lot, I guess other ingrediants could have played a part in it as well.
I’m looking forward to your feedback if you try Siligel
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Abdullah said:Graillotion said:I’m gonna guess… High acyl….after viewing this chart:
Where did you get this chart?????
I got it here:
Best Selling High Acyl Gellan Gum - E418 Gellan Gum Supplier (gumstabilizer.com)
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@Ilsme how does the skin feel compare to Solagum AX?
How do you hydrate it?
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@Graillotion said:So something like Siligel, which has a very small amount of pullulan…were you still finding pilling? Did you ever test Siligel?I created a couple of emulsions with Siligel (1% ) and compared their skin feel to the same emulsion made with with Solagum AX (0.3%). I noticed that both emulsions with Siligel pilled, while the one with Solagum AX didn’t (it was also much thinner).
I also made a few emulsions with Ecogel (INCI: Lysolecithin, Xantham, Sclerotium and Pullulan) at 1.5% and didn’t notice any pilling. The backbone of this set was *almost* identical to the ones above. All emulsions had a 15% oil phase.
I know it’s hard to compare when all the percentages were different (the aim of my experiments was not to compare the thickeners specifically). Nonetheless, it’s interesting that Ecogel at 1.5% didn’t pill, despite containing pullulan.
The only difference between Siligel and Ecogel is lecithin vs lysolecithin (maybe also the percentages of pullulan?).
So why would one pill and not the other?
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Thank you for sharing, I found this very insightful, as we are currently struggling with Pilling issue with in different face serums with 1% oil phase and different gums (no emulsifiers). We saw pilling in Siligel, and Xanthan Gum. Pilling reduced in Ecogel + Xanthan X 34 combimation, but was still there. Pilling was lease in Solagum AX + Xanthan Gum, but to be tested further.
I would love to hear any suggestions from someone who as been able to overcome this pilling challenge in a serum formulation. Thank you.
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