Water condensing or small amount of separation?

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Formulating

Water condensing or small amount of separation?

Posted by JonahRay on February 18, 2021 at 4:53 pm

Hi friends! I’ve been working on this cream for quite some time and I’ve noticed a few issues that I’m having. I LOVE the way this cream feels and its effects are perfect however I am having a few textural issues that I would like to improve.

The formula:

water: 73.4

glycerin: 5

methyl gluceth-10: 2

sodium gluconate: 0.1

sodium PCA (50% solution): 1

squalane: 1

cct: 10

petrolatum: 0.5

montanov 68 MB: 3

polyacrylate crosspolymer-6: 0.5

cetearyl alcohol: 1

peg-8 dimethicone: 2

citric acid solution: qs

germall plus: 0.5

I heat both phases to a minimum of 80C and then add the water phase to the oil phase while mixing with a handheld immersion blender on high for a few minutes and then low for a few minutes. I add the final phase (below 40C) and then I mix by hand until cooled. The texture is beautiful after it cools to room temp but when I pot it, it becomes a bit more matte (especially below the surface when you scoop a bit out). I’ve noticed that it develops a bit of dew on the surface as well but I have a hard time determining if this is separation.

I’m looking to get help making it a bit smoother and shinier (maybe it’s how I process it especially with lackluster equipment) and also help with possible separation.

Thanks!

JonahRay replied 3 years, 8 months ago 2 Members · 9 Replies
9 Replies

Graillotion

Member
February 18, 2021 at 8:02 pm

If you dig to the bottom of the M 68 instruction sheet…you will discover they recommend always pairing it with an anionic o/w emulsifier. Add Glyceryl stearate citrate at .5-.75%, and increase your M 68 to 4%…and I believe you will be happy. (Please don’t confuse GSC for GS or GS SE.)

Glyceryl Stearate Citrate-EMF-GLYCSTEACIT-01 (makingcosmetics.com)

Keep your polyacrylate crosspolymer in there.

Mont 202 will make it shinier. (Also pair with GSC.)
JonahRay

Member
February 18, 2021 at 8:28 pm

Thank you for your response! I’ll grab some GSC when I can and give it a go. This might sound dumb but I have sucrose cocoate on hand (which I think is nonionic not anionic). Could that have any benefit to the formula?
Graillotion

Member
February 18, 2021 at 8:45 pm

Well…I believe any co emulsifier is better than none. But ultimately it is about making the best possible pairing. Not only does the mfg recommend an anionic….but so does my genius chemist.
JonahRay

Member
February 18, 2021 at 8:47 pm

@Graillotion I’ll wait to get GSC then, thanks for your advice!
JonahRay

Member
March 17, 2021 at 7:37 pm

@Graillotion finally got my hands on glyceryl stearate citrate and looks like the problem has been solved (into the incubator it goes). I also increased 68MB to 4% and also added in some tribehenin - thank you so much for the advice!
Graillotion

Member
March 17, 2021 at 8:03 pm

JonahRay said:

@Graillotion finally got my hands on glyceryl stearate citrate and looks like the problem has been solved (into the incubator it goes). I also increased 68MB to 4% and also added in some tribehenin - thank you so much for the advice!

Hope all goes well!

GSC is really nice…in that it really doesn’t change the tactile feeling that you chase with the main emulsifier. I had tried a different anionic in my journeys, and it absolutely destroyed the feel I was chasing with the Montanov’s.
Graillotion

Member
March 18, 2021 at 1:02 am

In your heading….you mentioned condensation…. Chemical Matt had a good comment in another thread…which reminded me… You might consider adding some glycols. That can only help….in so many ways.

I usually stir them in at the end of cool down…with fragrance and preservative….be warned…there is a brief…OH CRAP…moment when you think you’ve destroyed your emulsion….but don’t worry…it looks good again with 30-40 seconds of hand stirring.
JonahRay

Member
March 18, 2021 at 1:48 am

Graillotion said:

In your heading….you mentioned condensation…. Chemical Matt had a good comment in another thread…which reminded me… You might consider adding some glycols. That can only help….in so many ways.

I usually stir them in at the end of cool down…with fragrance and preservative….be warned…there is a brief…OH CRAP…moment when you think you’ve destroyed your emulsion….but don’t worry…it looks good again with 30-40 seconds of hand stirring.

I haven’t had the same condensation issue so far but I do recall seeing that comment. I will take this approach if need be!
JonahRay

Member
April 3, 2021 at 12:10 am

One of these ingredients impart a quite sweet scent (almost like unripe banana). Does anyone know which it maybe be? None seem to have it in their raw form and it isn’t apparent until the product has cooled completely (like the next day for example).