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Want to exchange between Mg(OH)₂ and TEC in deodorant
Hi everyone,
Like many of you on this forum, I’m developing a deodorant and have read numerous discussions here. Below is a summary of what I’ve learned so far.
First, I’m working on an anhydrous stick deodorant; later I’ll develop a cream version (I haven’t yet decided if it will be anhydrous or water-based). All formulations will be aluminum-free and natural.
From what I understand, there are two main approaches:
1. High pH activity – Mg(OH)₂ + Zinc ricinoleate
The deodorant neutralizes body odours by raising the pH. It’s an alternative to baking soda, but can still irritate sensitive skin due to its high pH.
2. Low pH activity – Triethyl citrate (TEC)
It inhibits odor in an acidic way, rather than alkaline. These two mechanisms can’t be combined effectively.
A few years ago, most indie brands favoured TEC, but more recently I’ve seen new and best-selling products using baking soda or Mg(OH)₂, and some even combine both strategies (TEC + baking soda). Major brands have also released various versions over time.
In conclusion, I’d love to hear your thoughts: which approach do you prefer high pH or low pH activity and what pH level do you target when the deodorant contacts sweat?
Thank you!
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10 Replies
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I have sensitive skin… Mag or BS would likely send me to the ER.
TEC is NOT low pH…it has NO pH.
TEC is used IN a low pH system. These systems are MUCH MORE difficult to make well….hence the indie brands have dropped back to beginner level concepts without regard to the users skin.
If you simply drop high pH items and sub in TEC….you will be sorely disappointed. It is a tiny piece to a big puzzle.
If you think the Indie brands have the best and brightest and most experienced cosmetic chemists on the payroll….maybe think again.
Good Luck.
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The mag used it deo…is traditionally a higher pH than the BS used. Scratch your head for a minute…its allowed. So why is BS exponentially more irritating than the mag? Solubility. BS creates a very rapid….for lack of a better term…. explosion of high pH. Mag has poor solubility in water (water is introduced by skin and sweat). Hence, for lack of a better term…. it is more like a ‘timed release’ elevation and maintenance of high pH. See the difference?
If you look at where microbes (the source of odor) thrive….in general, the range is 5-8 (of course there are outliers). Hence it is easiest to make a deo….either above or below that range. That is why you see the two systems on the market.
When we use soap on our skin….it is high pH. Hence we ‘wash it off’ after use. So, leaving something in place, that is high pH…is profoundly different….than using soap.
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My deo’s were horrible and very few people bought them but the few who did found me because nothing worked on their sensitive skin. I no longer have the formula but is was very simple and low ph. From what I read, acid helps with odor. At the time the scientist who wrote the blog didn’t know exactly why acids resolved BO but I think its common sense related. A lot of us grew up using vinegar to remove stubborn odor, it appears to be highly effective as deodorant too. I incorporated that into my stick deo. Along with some clay and rice powder, it worked. So if you want to experiment with something very simple, its a good start. I would always advise against baking soda, I don’t know the science behind incorporating it into deo but its so irritating to skin, that would make BO potentially worse. Especially after shaving when bacteria can go into a frenzy.
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Cute that you called the ‘blogger’ a scientist. 😉 If they actually were….then they would have known the reason!
Baking soda does only one thing. It raises pH. The irritation…is essentially a pH burn.
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This reply was modified 3 weeks, 2 days ago by Graillotion.
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This reply was modified 3 weeks, 2 days ago by
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Thank you for your message. I’ll research the use of acids and vinegar in deodorant. I wasn’t aware of this before. I’ll also conduct some experiments along those lines.
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I’m not sure if I can find the study I read, it was 5 years ago. My podiatrist recommended it for foot odor so there must be come reason why it works. Without the scientific knowledge, there’s no conclusion you can draw. But I’ve used it for almost 3 decades. I like it lol.
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Thank you for your answer. So you believe the best solution for an effective deodorant that’s also gentle on sensitive skin is to use a low-pH formula with TEC.
If you think the Indie brands have the best and brightest and most experienced cosmetic chemists on the payroll….maybe think again.
I’m not convinced that every small brand employs top-tier chemists, although some do have the financial resources to engage R&D consultants especially those that focus exclusively on deodorants. Of course, large groups like Unilever and L’Oréal certainly have both ample funding and in-house chemists on their R&D teams.
If you look at where microbes (the source of odor) thrive….in general, the range is 5-8 (of course there are outliers). Hence it is easiest to make a deo….either above or below that range. That is why you see the two systems on the market.
Thanks again for clarifying.
In addition to choosing between high- and low-pH approaches, I’d like to include an antimicrobial agent. Here are the options I’m considering:
- EHG : pH-independent and effective, but not “natural.”
- O-cymen-5-ol : works between pH 4 and 9, limited to 0.1 % in Europe, also not “natural.”
- Glyceryl Caprylate : natural, but only active between pH 4 and 7—below the typical (odor) microbial growth range of 5 – 8.
- Pentylene Glycol : natural and pH-independent, but usually used as a booster and humectant; I’m unsure whether it’s suitable for an anhydrous stick formula.
Finally, since magnesium hydroxide raises pH significantly, do you think adding citric or lactic acid to adjust the pH downward—say to around pH 9—would help reduce irritation?
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Lume (and its annoying inventor) claim low pH as mechanism for its efficacy.
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From someone that spent a couple of years working on a project in this space…. I have a hunch the LOI might be a little light. 😉
Pretty fascinating what you can come up with under the ‘fragrance’ banner. 😅
Or there is always the ‘Indie’ brand Modus operandi …. just leave some things off. If you start as an Indie brand…sometimes that baggage sticks around…as you advance.
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TEC and pH are just parts of a big puzzle. Hence, in and of themselves…you won’t achieve a product with more than a few hours of efficacy (akin to splashing lemon juice, vinegar etc…on your pits in the shower). (Your skin is trying to alter the pH, from the moment you apply.) You need antimicrobials. You have mentioned some. They will be the backbone of the project.
It is very difficult to make an anhydrous, low pH product. How are you as a laymen…gonna measure pH??? The pH can only be measured on the skin in that format…..after it combines with sweat and skin moisture. Lume has both a hydrous and anhydrous package….I suspect the anhydrous option took up 96% of their development time. How to take an acid in a dry format…and make it come out to just the right target pH….when applied to skin! Think about it.
If you don’t have extensive knowledge in the field, I’d probably stick with the very simplistic magnesium version. Essentially all Indie brands lack the knowledge, therefore flood that approach.
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This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by Graillotion.
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This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by
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