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Toothpaste formulation question: carbomer
Would this preneutralized carbomer from Sigma 3V (PNC 400) be safe to use as a thickener in a toothpaste?
I’m currently using xanthan gum, but I’m wondering if I should order this product to try it.
Here it is, sold in the U.S. by a small re-packer.
lotioncrafter.com
Sodium Carbomer, Preneutralized Carbomer
Sodium Carbomer is a pre-neutralized synthetic polymer that can be used to thicken, suspend and stabilize cosmetic formulations. Requiring very low concentrations, Carbomers are often used to adjust the viscosity of cosmetic preparations. They dry quickly and are not film … Continue reading
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6 Replies
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You could try it. I doubt it will work - but a lot will depend on what you are using as an abrasive because the abrasives affect the overall pH of the finished toothpaste.
Silicon dioxide is weakly acidic (finished toothpaste was around pH 6.5), you may be successful using carbomer to make a silicon dioxide gel. Calcium carbonate and baking soda is quite alkali ) the toothpastes we manufacture using Calcium carbonate or baking soda are around 8-8.5. I have no idea how the pH will affect the finished product if using carbomer.
I use either Cellulose gum/CMC (sodium carboxymethyl cellulose) in non-Natrue formulae, or xanthan gum in Natrue toothpastes.
CMC is by far better in this role. I guess by suggesting carbomer, meeting a natural standard is not in your plans; I would suggest you to use CMC every time.
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This reply was modified 1 month ago by Herbnerd.
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O.K. thanks for the help. I shall NOT bother ordering it. I just wondered about this product’s potential for toothpaste.
I have the xanthan gum & that is working well enough.
I can’t get CMC from any re-packers here in Canada that I know of 🙁.
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This reply was modified 1 month ago by
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Crest (P&G) is using carbomer in many of their toothpastes.
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Yes, I saw that in a Lubrizol publication. They’re using Lubrizol’s carbopol polymer (different types) and I am IGNORANT as to whether or not THIS is the same as the pre-neutralized carbomer from 3V Sigma, which is what I can buy at Lotion Crafter in WA state. Ignorance is a terrible thing 🤩.
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While I can’t say for certain as I’m not a professional, I do believe they are essentially the same but one is pre-neutralized. I have used sodium carbomer in gels and lotions and it functioned the same way. I think the difference is that there are many different grades or versions of carbomer, so with sodium carbomer you are limited to its specifications.
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@Margaret PNC400 from 3V Sigma is identical to any pre-neutralized acrylic polymer (carbomers included) from any other source. As others have commented, inclusion of electrolytes, especially divalent ones, will crash virtually all of these. The formulations from P&G and Lubrizol likely do not have the usual dentrifices such as dicalcium phosphate, sodium bicarbonate, etc.; they may include silicas and silicates though. This is not a function of pH but crosslinking chemistry.
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