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Temp Wrinkle Remover & Sodium Silicate
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Hi David,
Thank you for your message.
No, unfortunately that wasn’t the same one. I actually bought that when the original one was no longer available, and although it was OK, I’m afraid it wasn’t anything close to the original.
The original came in a white plastic bottle, and I do have an almost identical bottle when someone tried to reproduce the original except the bottle was clear. I have it somewhere and will take a photo…it looked identical, except the original was white plastic, and although it was called the same and listed the same ingredients it wasn’t the same formula.
Like I said, the original formula was incredible. I used it for about five years and it totally 100% removed every single indentation scar, and people I knew who had wrinkles absolutely raved about it. It was like sweeping a magic wand over you face, and nothing since competes.
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@JLLL18 Maybe you and your friends just grew older and gravity and co. got the better of you? *Ducks-and-runs-away*
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Haha, no not at all ????
In fact, I have no wrinkles or lines even now — in that respect I’m very lucky — but that’s probably genetic as all my family look years younger that their age and do have good skin.
Sadly, I suffered from teenage spots/acne, and it left horrid indentations in my temple area which I was, and still am, so self-conscious of.
I have tried every lotion on the market, including cosmetic procedures, and not one of them hides that scarring like that original lotion did. The No Lines Lotion you refer to was kind of similar, but much thinner, more fluid, and crucially didn’t contain that brilliant tightening substance, nor did it feel “gritty” when it dried.Back in the 1980s when I first stumbled upon it, I told people about — women much older than me who did have wrinkles. One woman had severely deep wrinkles and lines, and when she bought some she almost cried as it completely 100% made them disappear, albeit temporarily until it was washed off.
When I bought copycat formulas afterwards, not one had the same effect ????
I’m sure someone, somewhere, must know what that magic formula/ingredient was.
As you’ve seen, I’ve listed the ingredients that was on the original, so I suspect it’s the actual formula that needs to be replicated.
I did enquire years ago when emailing one company who’d made a copycat formula, and they told me they’d been trying to replicate the original but they too didn’t have the exact same formula.
It’s such a shame, as it was truly miraculous.
All I know is that it felt gritty like sandpaper/broken glass once dried, but it was invisible to the eye and your skin just looked perfectly smooth.
Do you have any idea what ingredient caused that gritty touch? Could it be the Magnesium Aluminium Silicate — which I think may be Water Glass having researched on Google?
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If you have the original, take a picture of it. Also if it says a company or anything on the back.
Back in the 1980’s there was only about 5 to 10 manufacturers in the entire state of Florida including a family business I worked for in South Florida. If it was made in Florida I must know them
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Hi David,
I’ve just seen your message.
I will take a photo of the bottle I have which, although isn’t the original white plastic bottle, it’s identical in shape/size, and lists the exact same ingredients that the original did. However, the lotion did not have the same effect, so I can only imagine that the company who created this copycat one mixed the formula up differently.
I shall take a photo as soon as I get home on a few hours and post it up for you.
Thank you so, so much for your help!
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Hi David,
I’ve attached two photos of the copycat formula.
The original bottle wasn’t transparent — it was solid white plastic — but everything else was identical: the shape, wording, ingredients, and that it was made in Florida. I don’t remember the name of the company, unfortunately.
Although this formula is similar, it’s nowhere near as effective as the original. And it isn’t a “bad one” as I ordered 20 bottles when I thought I’d rediscovered it: none of the formulas in all those 20 bottles were like the original. I bought these ones about 10 years ago after searching on Google, and I believe they stopped producing them soon after.
I did email the company prior to ordering them and got a reply back to say they were trying to recreate that original formula — but it just wasn’t the same.
I saw a comment one customer made in a review who said how the original formula was so fantastic it could’ve removed deep creases from crumbled linen sheets — and she was right. What was also so good about it, besides it totally eradicating acne scars, lines & wrinkles, was that it also went very, very tight creating a “lift”. And what was so amazing was that after it dried and you talked, smiled, laughed etc — there was no creasing/bunching/folding where you’d applied the lotion. When it dried it was invisible to the eye.
Neither did it leave lots of white residue on the edges like many copycat ones do: if you applied it by just dabbing it on in tiny quantities it left no white residue at all, but if you rushed and applied too much and there was a tiny amount of white residue just outside the outer edge you’d simply wipe it away with a wet cotton bud and it was gone. No-one could ever tell you were wearing anything at all on your skin, even when they came right close-up to your face to look: I often showed friends how fabulous it was and they couldn’t even see I had anything on my skin, in fact, some didn’t believe I had anything on my skin at all — they just thought my skin looked completely normal and smooth.Another great thing about it, though I only tried this a few times, was that you could mix the lotion with foundation (any type at all), and it still had that same amazing effect of 100% hiding wrinkles, lines and acne scars. It would have hidden any scar, I’d imagine, except maybe raised keloid ones, but I suspect it would have even helped smooth and flatten those out too due to its extreme tightening effect.
Sorry to go on so much, but it was such a fantastic product and I was genuinely heartbroken when they stopped making it.
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Ah, Life Works. We made product for them. The gentleman who owned the company was named Sid Katz. He passed away many, many years ago. Don’t know what happened to the company after that. IF the other product was made in South Florida there is a good chance we made it too
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BTW, it’s the sodium silicate that is “water glass”. And most all leave a residue. The amount depends on the person’s skin and the amount of silicate in the formula. A few other things too but the ones I mentioned are the main ones.
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Thank you for your reply, David.
How sad that the gentleman who possibly made the original died: I wonder if anyone knows what his formula was?
I’m not a chemist, obviously, but as I’ve tried all the other similar lotions, including the copycat one I posted above, and not one of them were as effective as the original I can only think it was the amount he used of the sodium silicate? Am I right, do you think? As the sodium silicate is water glass it must be that which gave the original the gritty feel, yes?Will you be creating any more, or do you have any tips on how I could create some myself? Are there different types/strengths of sodium silicate and magnesium aluminium silicate?Thank you so much for your help
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Hey JLLL18,
Have you tried Nanoblur by Indeed Labs? It’s based more on silicones but when i last tested it, gave the “sand paper” feel you mention - also was our gold standard for wrinkle filling and pore minimising.
I’m currently looking into the Sodium Silicate based formulations, of which there are two identical products that have great results:
Vitayes Instant Ageback:
Water, magnesium aluminum silicate, propylene glycol, sodium silicate, acetyl hexapeptide-8 (argielinel), phenoxyethanol, ethylhexlglycerin c1 16035And
Jeunesse Instantly Ageless
Water (Aqua), Sodium Silicate, Magnesium Aluminum Silicate, Acetyl Hexapeptide-8 (Argireline), Phenoxyethanol, Ethylexylglycerin, Yellow 5 (Cl 19140), Red 40 (Cl16035)I’m looking for formulation tips on a product like this, again for a client - DavidW, did Mark ever get back to you via private email all those years ago? Would you mind sharing?
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Wait a sec… water plus sodium and magnesium aluminium silicate without an added acid = alkaline brew (pH >11) = hydrolysis of Argireline and ethylhexylglycerin, likely degradation of phenoxyethanol, and probable degradation of Yellow 5.Not that Argireline would do anything useful in that product in the first place and I’m also not complaining about loss of preservatives in a product which doesn’t need preservation, it’s rather the absence of any logic behind such a mixture and who the heck had the weird idea to put waterglass on his/her face? Maybe try to add a polymer to hold the film together for a longer period of time and retard/reduce cracking once dried?
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These “instant wrinkle remover” products have been around for quite some time … you can add an acid to lower the pH. The most popular one is Plexaderm.
As it dries, the waterglass forms a film that contracts giving the optical illusion of the wrinkles “disappearing” … in reality, the polymer just pulls the skin taut and it last for 5-6 hours. Quite difficult to formulate these without it leaving a white residue.
Pharma … you should not be amazed at what people will do and/or put on their skin in the quest for “beauty” … I still think the most ridiculous I’ve come across yet is anal bleaching.
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Oh god, don’t remind me of that thread! My vivid imagination got the better of me back then :blush:True, silicates are tricky to formulate and predict, I know as much from hydroponics.
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@Pharma How do you prevent the white powder from occurring? What is its cause?
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It’s polymerised silicic acid aka precipitated silica. At first, it forms a layer of ‘glass’ on your skin but then, due to movements, that layer cracks into said powder. You can not prevent it from happening, it’s an inherent property of silicates. There have been investigations and some patented inventions which claim stabilised silica. A: This, were it working, would not form the tightening film and B: My trials didn’t work out. I did recook and modify about a dozen and none were stable for more than a few days at the concentration I wanted.I’ve never tried anything regarding stabilising the film (my trials were for other uses such as hydroponics and fun experiments with deep eutectic solvents because one key ingredient therein is claimed to stabilise silicate solutions). My imagination here would be to add a gelling agent or film-forming polymer to ‘glue’ that glass layer together and imparting enough flexibility to the film to keep it from cracking and have it stick to skin better.
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Hi guys,
Thanks for answering after a 3 and a half year slumber!
It looks like the latest ones are adding colorants to combat the white residue, but I’m not sure if it’s working. I think some recommend using as a base underneath make up for the best effect.
Specifically with the pH i’m assuming lowering the pH too much will turn it into silicic acid inside the formula, meaning the formula needs to stay at a constant pH of 9.5+ (or at least above the pKa of Sodium Silicate). I’m not sure how they are allowed to recommend use around the eyes at this pH. Does anyone know what the pH of Plexaderm is?
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My experience:
If the pH drops below 9.5-10 the product is not very effective. Best effect if kept at pH 10-11. Just have to be careful with instructions about not getting it into the eye.
I also would like to know the pH of Plexiderm?
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@ Pharma. I agree with your comments. I think the white powder issue can be lessened to a significant degree with the right mix of ingredients. I am working on it and it is not easy to solve.
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@ Pharma and others—what preservative, if any, works best at the pH 10-11found in this product?
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At a pH above 10, some mould (mostly on the surface) and alkaliphile bacteria can grow. I’m not familiar whether or not such alkaliphiles are even present in everyday life and/or are common cosmetic spoilage germs. If you want/need preservation at all, you might consider adding a preservative which is active against fungi, chemically stable, and slightly volatile (headspace preservation). I’m thinking of phenylpropanol or its combo with caprylyl glycol and/or pentylene glycol or hexanediol. With luck, the glycols might increase the products haptic profile too by reduce cracking/whitening as well as soothing/moisturising skin.
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@Pharma -What concentration of pentylene glycol?
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Depends
. Why do you want to add it? If it’s for preservation: Do you want to use other preservatives alongside pentylene glycol? Around 5% is the ‘standard’ concentration for it. You’ll have to try out and see if you like the outcome. -
@Pharma -Does Pentylene glycol by itself act as a preservative?
Does it function at a pH of greater than 10?
Does it function to enhance the preservation of other preservatives?
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Yes, yes, and yes. Although, you need enough for to achieve the yes.
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