solving viscosity challenges in dishwashing liquid

Formulating

solving viscosity challenges in dishwashing liquid

Posted by Naim on April 28, 2019 at 7:40 am

Hi all, I have been making dishwashing liquid at home but not getting good enough viscosity. I observed that whenever I make one liter it become considerably thick even though I don’t have any measuring device for that. But on making 2, 3 or 4liters it becomes watery using the same ingredients composition. Below is the formulation I have been using for 1 liter.

LABSA. 94ml

Caustic soda 12.5g

Sles. 30g

EDTA. 1g

NaCl 2g

Formalin. 1ml

Colorant/ essence. Qs.

Water 860ml

Please Can someone here help me out because I intend to start making commercial batch but couldn’t because of this challenge. Can I use different thickners like xanthan gum and CMC or is there any way forward. Best regards.

Naim replied 5 years, 9 months ago 5 Members · 17 Replies
17 Replies

Ahmad

Member
April 28, 2019 at 8:06 am

Reduce amount of labsa to 45g
Salt 10 gram
Cautic 6.5g
Naim

Member
April 28, 2019 at 8:12 am

Ahmad said:

Reduce amount of labsa to 45g
Salt 10 gram
Cautic 6.5g

Thanks for your quick response. I will take it into consideration and report back my experience. thanks once again
Naim

Member
April 28, 2019 at 8:14 am

Please is use of CMC advisable
Gunther

Member
April 30, 2019 at 2:29 am

LABSA and SLES are too low
increase to about 15% LABSA and 5% SLES to get proper viscosity
salt needs to be slowly added in 0.25% increments (dissolved in water) until the proper viscosity builds.
Better yet do a salt curve experiment.
Formalin is banned and a proven carcinogen.
ozgirl

Member
April 30, 2019 at 3:49 am

You need to convert your formula to percentages. Also only work in weight (g) not in volume (ml).

It sounds like there might be a problem with your calculations for scale up or possibly the difference in your manufacturing method.

If you provide some more information about the amounts used and your manufacturing method you might get more help.
Aziz

Member
April 30, 2019 at 6:56 pm

Gunther said:

LABSA and SLES are too low
increase to about 15% LABSA and 5% SLES to get proper viscosity
salt needs to be slowly added in 0.25% increments (dissolved in water) until the proper viscosity builds.
Better yet do a salt curve experiment.
Formalin is banned and a proven carcinogen.

In my experience 15 % LABSA is too high . 6 to 10% is fine . 5% SLES , 2% CDEA , 3 to 4 % CAPB and NaCl may give a very good viscosity .
Naim

Member
April 30, 2019 at 11:43 pm

Gunther said:

LABSA and SLES are too low
increase to about 15% LABSA and 5% SLES to get proper viscosity
salt needs to be slowly added in 0.25% increments (dissolved in water) until the proper viscosity builds.
Better yet do a salt curve experiment.
Formalin is banned and a proven carcinogen.

I really appreciate your response, I will try and do the salt curve experiment but for the case of formalin I knew of other preservatives like methyl paraben but are difficult to get at my location. And isn’t 15%Labsa high
Naim

Member
April 30, 2019 at 11:57 pm

Aziz said:

Gunther said:

LABSA and SLES are too low
increase to about 15% LABSA and 5% SLES to get proper viscosity
salt needs to be slowly added in 0.25% increments (dissolved in water) until the proper viscosity builds.
Better yet do a salt curve experiment.
Formalin is banned and a proven carcinogen.

In my experience 15 % LABSA is too high . 6 to 10% is fine . 5% SLES , 2% CDEA , 3 to 4 % CAPB and NaCl may give a very good viscosity .

Thanks a lot for your response, but the CDEA AND CAPB will be difficult for me to get at our local markets. Besides I don’t know what CAPB stands for and it’s functions. I will take your suggestion on LABSA/ SLES and see how it will work out. Thanks once again
Naim

Member
May 1, 2019 at 12:15 am

ozgirl said:

You need to convert your formula to percentages. Also only work in weight (g) not in volume (ml).

It sounds like there might be a problem with your calculations for scale up or possibly the difference in your manufacturing method.

If you provide some more information about the amounts used and your manufacturing method you might get more help.

I will like to thank you for your response. I will convert into percentage as you suggested but for the manufacturing method it follows the sequence below

NaOH in 100ml water, EDTA and NaCl in 10ml water each. I then mix them as LABSA+NaOH Sol.+SLES+ NaCl Sol.+EDTA Sol and so on respectively.
Naim

Member
May 2, 2019 at 11:14 am

ozgirl said:

You need to convert your formula to percentages. Also only work in weight (g) not in volume (ml).

It sounds like there might be a problem with your calculations for scale up or possibly the difference in your manufacturing method.

If you provide some more information about the amounts used and your manufacturing method you might get more help.

LABSA 9.4%

NaOH 1.25%

SLES. 3%

EDTA. 0.1%

NaCl. 0.2%

Formalin 0.1%

Water to 100%

Color/essence qs.
Naim

Member
May 16, 2019 at 10:29 pm

Hi respected members, I will like to express my sincere appreciation for the information you shared with me especially Mr. Gunther, Ahmad and Aziz. You really help me a lot and all I can say is thanks to you all. I was able to adjust my formula into the below compositions. The viscosity was quite ok but the pH was at 10.
LABSA 12%
NaOH. 1.5%
SLES. 5%
CDEA. 3%
EDTA. 0.2%
NaCl. 1%
Water to 100%

Can this be a good approach or there are some modifications that I need to do to make it a good recipe.
Aziz

Member
May 18, 2019 at 10:10 am

Without CAPB foaming performance will poor . So keep CAPB in your formula . What is your presevative system ? What about stability ? Is your colour stable at that pH for a long time ?
Gunther

Member
May 18, 2019 at 5:54 pm

pH 10 is just too high. It will surely irritate and even strip off the skin.
Lower NaOH or increase LABSA to get a pH that’s about neutral.
Pour the last 5% of the NaOH slowly, checking its pH frequently.
You can even get a slightly acidic pH 5-6 sulfonates reverting back to free LABSA.
Stay away from highly acidic pH levels < 3 from unneutralized LABSA too.

You just don’t just add salt.
You need to determine the proper amount of salt, depending on the viscosity you want.
Read about doing a salt curve.

There’s no preservative in the formula.
Naim

Member
May 18, 2019 at 11:47 pm

Aziz said:

Without CAPB foaming performance will poor . So keep CAPB in your formula . What is your presevative system ? What about stability ? Is your colour stable at that pH for a long time ?

Thanks a lot Aziz. I’m still searching for CAPB at our markets but I will surely include it. my preservative was initially formaldehyde but on coming here I realized it is no longer supportive so I decided to go with methyl paraben . After long time I do observed slight change in the colour
Naim

Member
May 19, 2019 at 12:09 am

Gunther said:

pH 10 is just too high. It will surely irritate and even strip off the skin.
Lower NaOH or increase LABSA to get a pH that’s about neutral.
Pour the last 5% of the NaOH slowly, checking its pH frequently.
You can even get a slightly acidic pH 5-6 sulfonates reverting back to free LABSA.
Stay away from highly acidic pH levels < 3 from unneutralized LABSA too.

You just don’t just add salt.
You need to determine the proper amount of salt, depending on the viscosity you want.
Read about doing a salt curve.

There’s no preservative in the formula.

Thanks for your response Mr.Gunther. before getting the pH level of 10, I initially used 1.3%NaOH but the pH was at 3 and upon increasing it to 1.5% the pH level becomes 10. You have really enlighten me on how to go about it and I will surely do it based on your recommendations. As for the salt I’m still working on it
Aziz

Member
May 19, 2019 at 12:24 pm

Naim said:

Aziz said:

Without CAPB foaming performance will poor . So keep CAPB in your formula . What is your presevative system ? What about stability ? Is your colour stable at that pH for a long time ?

Thanks a lot Aziz. I’m still searching for CAPB at our markets but I will surely include it. my preservative was initially formaldehyde but on coming here I realized it is no longer supportive so I decided to go with methyl paraben . After long time I do observed slight change in the colour

If you notice a little change in colour , definitely it will turn from green to olive and olive to brownish . That means your formulation is not stable . If you market a substandard product you will not succeed. So you should look for color which can take that pH .
Naim

Member
May 21, 2019 at 4:41 am

@Aziz thanks for your informative response. I now understood what the stability you talk about earlier means. Thanks once again