Silicone serum separtion - Chemists Corner

Hair

Silicone serum separtion

Posted by HairmanPhd on July 20, 2015 at 9:28 pm

Hello Chemists,
I have been struggling to achieve positive results with this formula. I am trying to keep basically a silicone in oil serum stable. The formula consists of
dimethicone 60.00%
phenyl trimethicone 20.00%
cyclomethicone/dimethicone 10.00%
essiential oil blend 10.00%

all the silicones mix together but after a couple of days the the essential oils and fragrance start to separate.
Everything that i have read is stating that silcone is an oil and it should just blend with the oils and fragrance.
I have even tried and had some sucess with Gransurf 90(Grant Industries) but that even separate after a week.
Does anyone have any suggestions on keeping this a clear stable formula. I would love remove shake well before using
off the instructions. Thank you in advance

Gunther replied 6 years, 3 months ago 10 Members · 17 Replies
17 Replies

HairmanPhd

Member
July 20, 2015 at 9:30 pm

I’m sorry, this formula is for a hair gloss for textured hair. Thanks Again
MarkBroussard

Member
July 20, 2015 at 10:40 pm

@HairmanPhd:

Perhaps if you define “Essential Oil Blend” it would be possible to give you some advice.
HairmanPhd

Member
July 21, 2015 at 12:50 am

No problem, the blend consists of argan oil, sunflower seed oil, and macadamia nut oil thanks
Chemist77

Member
July 21, 2015 at 1:05 am

I have serum formulation with 5% Argan oiland the remaining is silicone oils and gum, have had no issues until now. Fragrance is there is well @ .3% level.
belassi

Member
July 21, 2015 at 1:08 am

You have discovered that silicones and organic oils are not necessarily miscible. I had better add, that the term “essential oil” is reserved for distillations or extractions of the “essential” components of herbs, flowers, etc. eg peppermint oil, eucalyptus oil. The three you mentioned are carrier oils. In addition, I know that there is a high percentage of unsaponifiables in argan, and that’s not going to play well.

It seems to me that you might be designing one of these ‘silk drops’ products. Unfortunately I don’t have any hands-on in that area, so I’m unable to help further - maybe take a look on Prospector? Swift’s Blog?
HairmanPhd

Member
July 21, 2015 at 1:18 am

Would lessening the percentage of the “blend of oils” be my only option or would one know of an agent to make the oils miscible?
belassi

Member
July 21, 2015 at 1:27 am

Maybe a surfactant would be of help? By definition you need some kind of solubiliser.

For starters, make a test batch in which you have 10% (benchmark), 8%, 6%, 4%, 2% of your carrier oil blend. Aim of this test: to first of all, determine if your blend of these oils is viable, and if so at what % maximum.
Bobzchemist

Member
July 21, 2015 at 2:36 am

What did your silicone supplier sales rep suggest?

I think you should drop the silicones, use organo-silicones only.
Chemist77

Member
July 22, 2015 at 5:46 am

Here you go
Gum Blend 1501. 60-70%
Cyclopentasiloxane. 20-30%
Phenyl trimethicone. 2-5%
Oil Blend. 5%

I suppose this should work, I have identical formula except that I don’t use blend. I use argan oil @ 5% and fragrance oil @ 0.3% level. Don’t forget to check the compatibility of your fragrance with silicone oils. And who suggested 20% phenyl trimethicone, just curious????
MarkBroussard

Member
July 22, 2015 at 5:56 pm

@HairmanPhD:

Have you tried throwing in some isododecane?
gfeldman

Member
July 28, 2015 at 8:38 pm

Does he not need some kind of oil in silicone surfactant to keep them together? I do not know of a good one off the top of my head, but I believe that would be what is required here. You guys have any suggestions?
Bobzchemist

Member
July 28, 2015 at 9:07 pm

There is a technique that doesn’t require oil in silicone surfactants (essentially making a waterless emulsion) that involves using coupling agents.

Basically, (natural oil mix) + (mostly oil-soluble organo-silicone) + (mostly silicone-soluble organo-silicone) + (silicone)

Order of addition is sometimes critical.
chemicalmatt

Member
July 28, 2015 at 9:28 pm

This sounds like a job for…wait for it…FINSOLV TN (C12-15 alkyl benzoate). Miscible with cyclomethicone,most alkyl esters, isododecane and mineral oil. This may bridge your incompatibility problem if added to/with your essential oils - along with that order of addition Bob refers to (always important!) As I have said so many times before: what CAN’T Finsolv TN do?
LaurenB

Member
August 14, 2015 at 5:48 am

HairmanPhd

I make this for my hair As per Chemist77 suggested. Gum blend 1501, add everything else to it, it works well if you add ingredients in the right order. C12-15 Alky Benzoate is a hero!
Chemist77

Member
August 14, 2015 at 4:51 pm

@ChicoB My suggestion is based on what I have been doing for years now but what @chemicalmatt suggests has million dollar worth.
Dirtnap1

Member
September 1, 2018 at 9:05 pm

Bringing this back to the top. I’m currently formulating a shaving silicone oil blend. What is a good thickener for silicones such as dimethicone and cyclomethicones?
Gunther

Member
September 4, 2018 at 9:49 pm

@HairmanPhd sorry if this sound obvious but can you please clarify if the product is intended to be applied on hair or skin?

@Bobzchemist do you know of a volatile organosilicone suitable for replacing cyclomethicone?

@chemicalmatt thanks for mentioning Finsolv TN.