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Raw materials distributors for average consumers?
Hello, I am trying to understand how I, as an average consumer who just wants to make a small batch product for myself only, can obtain a raw ingredient from a chemical supplier.
I have contacted the manufacturer of the ingredient (Seppic) and other chemical supplier websites like ‘UL Prospector’ about a sample, but it seems that I need to have a registered business to place an order? Am I correct in this interpretation that an average consumer cannot place an order with these suppliers?Consumer-based ingredients suppliers like “Lotion Crafter” or “Making Cosmetics” don’t have this ingredient.I am sorry if any of this sounds ignorant/uninformed; I truly have done a lot of Google-ing and inquiries. I guess I am just looking for a straight-forward answer as to whether there’s any way for a consumer like me to obtain access to this ingredient.If anyone is curious, the ingredient is Ceramosides HP (INCI: Glycosphingolipids & glycolipids)- a fat-soluble ingredient.Before anyone asks, I am unfortunately not interested in the readily available, water-soluble “Ceramide Complex” (INCI: Ceramide NP, Ceramide AP, Ceramide EOP, Phytosphingosine, Cholesterol, Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate, Carbomer, Xanthan Gum).Please kindly don’t antagonize me about “why?”, because I have several very personal reasons why (after 5 years of experimenting) I no longer wish to formulate products with water; thus, the “Ceramide Complex” is not an option for me. -
15 Replies
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It is a reasonable question to which the short answer is…they don’t want to be bothered to sell it to you.
You have to understand that cosmetic raw material companies make money by selling as much of a chemical as they can. Their ideal customer is a big corporation like P&G or Unilever who will buy multiple tanker truck loads of a chemical. This keeps the factory going.
Their second tier customer is one who will consistently buy 55 gallon drums of some material. While selling in drums is not ideal, that can still make a big enough profit off a drum sale to make it worth it. Consider if it is a raw material that sells for $2 a lb, a 55 gallon drum ~ 480 lb = $960…add in fees, filling, shipping and each drum they sell makes them over $1000.
Now, consider a single consumer who wants to buy only a small amount, say 1 gallon. How much can they make from that? Even if they make the price 10x as much, they will still only be making $20 for a single sale. They would now need 500 more customers just like you to equal the sale of one single drum to a big corporation.
This is just not worth the hassle.
Companies like Lotion Crafter or Making Cosmetics have decided that for them it would be worth the hassle. So, the are a second tier customer to the raw material manufacturer (they don’t make their own ingredients). They’ll buy one of those 55 gallon drums, then pack it up into smaller containers. They increase the price and sell to individuals. If it is an ingredient that lots of people want, then that makes it worth their time to sell.
But it’s also possible that they can’t find 500 people who want to buy any specific ingredient. Or that the raw material supplier doesn’t feel like hassling with even a company like Lotion Crafter who only buys one 55 gallon drum a year. Remember these suppliers want to sell tanker truck loads full of ingredient, not 55 gallon drums. And certainly not 5 gallon pails.
So that’s why you can’t buy it unless you are a business.
One possibility is to get a small sample from the company. But they will only give/sell you this if they think it will lead to a big sale in the future. Such as if you were starting a new beauty brand. However, if you are just a consumer who wants to make stuff for yourself, unless you know someone you can’t really get it.
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I understand. :'( Thank you very much for your time and comment, @Perry.
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@MJL
If you only want a sample, they generally have no reason to send it to you if you don’t want to buy at least a MOQ afterwards. And if you don’t have a registered company, it can be assumed that you do not intend to produce and sell (and buy a MOQ).I buy ingredients of the biggest manufacturers, quantity between 1 and 25 kg, and I have never had problems with receiving a sample or buying such quantity. I know for surfactants the MOQ is higher (around 180kg), generally the more expensive the ingredient, the smaller the MOQ. In extreme cases, it may even be 0.1 kg.
I found some oil dispersible ceramide complex: https://www.myskinrecipes.com/shop/en/anti-wrinkle/7898-ceramide-complex-oil-dispersible-powder.html
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Sorry for the delayed response- Thank you @grapefruit22 for sharing that!
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Grapefruit22 you are a legend! I looked at myrecipes.com.shop as per your link and wow found so many ingredients I havent been able to source in small quantites like this place. So have just made an order and waiting for shipping costs and even with those will be much cheaper than me buying this stuff in my own country. Brilliant thanks heaps for sharing.
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@Squinny if you are using air shipment, then the shipping cost will be expensive since it has been on the rise.
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Squinny said:Grapefruit22 you are a legend! I looked at myrecipes.com.shop as per your link and wow found so many ingredients I havent been able to source in small quantites like this place. So have just made an order and waiting for shipping costs and even with those will be much cheaper than me buying this stuff in my own country. Brilliant thanks heaps for sharing.I learned the hard way….when trying to order from them. If you order 1 gram…or 500…the shipping fee is the SAME! So when you place your order…get as CLOSE to 500 grams of product as possible. This will be the most efficient way to spread the shipping cost over all goods.
It will stair-step up from there….so you have to ask for their shipping grid…if you are North of 500 grams.
Aloha.
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@Graillotion @jemolian nice point to inform because shipment will increase exponentially the price of ingredient.
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Graillotion said:Squinny said:Grapefruit22 you are a legend! I looked at myrecipes.com.shop as per your link and wow found so many ingredients I havent been able to source in small quantites like this place. So have just made an order and waiting for shipping costs and even with those will be much cheaper than me buying this stuff in my own country. Brilliant thanks heaps for sharing.
I learned the hard way….when trying to order from them. If you order 1 gram…or 500…the shipping fee is the SAME! So when you place your order…get as CLOSE to 500 grams of product as possible. This will be the most efficient way to spread the shipping cost over all goods.
It will stair-step up from there….so you have to ask for their shipping grid…if you are North of 500 grams.
Aloha.
Yes thanks for that agree. The shipping cost was quite expensive (equal to the products purchased - mind you I sent a query after I got their quote and they did reduce it by about 300 BHT - Anyway for a lot of the ingredients I bought they ended up much cheaper than the only place I found previously in Australia for those particular ingredients and when I calculate the cost of Triethyl Citrate for example (I did get 500 g ) it worked out to be a 10th of the price of the place I bought previously in Australia. - So for me I bought a lot of stuff to play with and cant wait for my parcel to arrive. Thanks all appreciate everyone’s views. The ingredients are only for my personal a max of 500 g is what I was after. I guess it depends on where you are too and currency conversion etc. Cheers all
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Fekher said:@Graillotion @jemolian nice point to inform because shipment will increase exponentially the price of ingredient.
Thanks Fekher. I use my total cost of an ingredient incl shipping cost when I calculate how much it costs me to make a product. Then I work out if I want to try make that product or not. I only make stuff for me, family and a few friends so I only ever want to purchase small quantities. If the quality of this place in Thailand is good and service good I’ll use again - If not well I only spent a few hundred $ so wont break the bank. Cheers
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Hi there, this is a very common problem, however there is a trend for second tier suppliers to start adding specialist ingredients.like ceramides etc….as MOQs become.more and more an issue. Full disclosure -To this end I started a side business.with my wife called The Sourcery….www.thesourcery.co.nz
There are bound to be others also, as this is a global issue re MOQs and logistics. -
FormulasNZ said:Hi there, this is a very common problem, however there is a trend for second tier suppliers to start adding specialist ingredients.like ceramides etc….as MOQs become.more and more an issue. Full disclosure -To this end I started a side business.with my wife called The Sourcery….www.thesourcery.co.nz
There are bound to be others also, as this is a global issue re MOQs and logistics.Hi had a look at your website. Are the prices NZD? Also do you ship to Australia - I only buy small amounts so I’m talking 5 kg max for a parcel. If so how much is shipping or is all on website? I dont need anything right now but would consider for future purchases if you have products I need and cant source here if you ship to Australia. FYI I found that the place in Thailand Myskinrecipes were very good with good prices shipped to Oz (and very efficient service by airfreight with DHL) especially in comparison to Trulux Australia which are very expensive and not worth it IMO.
Cheers -
Squinny said:FormulasNZ said:Hi there, this is a very common problem, however there is a trend for second tier suppliers to start adding specialist ingredients.like ceramides etc….as MOQs become.more and more an issue. Full disclosure -To this end I started a side business.with my wife called The Sourcery….www.thesourcery.co.nz
There are bound to be others also, as this is a global issue re MOQs and logistics.Hi had a look at your website. Are the prices NZD? Also do you ship to Australia - I only buy small amounts so I’m talking 5 kg max for a parcel. If so how much is shipping or is all on website? I dont need anything right now but would consider for future purchases if you have products I need and cant source here if you ship to Australia. FYI I found that the place in Thailand Myskinrecipes were very good with good prices shipped to Oz (and very efficient service by airfreight with DHL) especially in comparison to Trulux Australia which are very expensive and not worth it IMO.
CheersMay I ask…. How long it took to get your order from MySkin…. after placing the order? I have not yet ordered…. but plan to someday.
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Graillotion said:Squinny said:FormulasNZ said:Hi there, this is a very common problem, however there is a trend for second tier suppliers to start adding specialist ingredients.like ceramides etc….as MOQs become.more and more an issue. Full disclosure -To this end I started a side business.with my wife called The Sourcery….www.thesourcery.co.nz
There are bound to be others also, as this is a global issue re MOQs and logistics.Hi had a look at your website. Are the prices NZD? Also do you ship to Australia - I only buy small amounts so I’m talking 5 kg max for a parcel. If so how much is shipping or is all on website? I dont need anything right now but would consider for future purchases if you have products I need and cant source here if you ship to Australia. FYI I found that the place in Thailand Myskinrecipes were very good with good prices shipped to Oz (and very efficient service by airfreight with DHL) especially in comparison to Trulux Australia which are very expensive and not worth it IMO.
CheersMay I ask…. How long it took to get your order from MySkin…. after placing the order? I have not yet ordered…. but plan to someday.
They were very quick - I did my order on 29th July and they emailed all the Data sheets etc to my email address that day. I got the shipping advice on 2nd Aug from DHL and tracking details etc on my mobile phone. On day of delivery 8th Aug I was advised by DHL that parcel would be delivered that day which it arrived just after noon that day and then had confirmation of delivery notification once delivered so all was very efficient. As I live in regional area I was pretty impressed - it takes longer most of the time for me to get a delivery from Sydney to Cairns. All was well packed and had the weights on each ingredient - some I had small amount of say 50 grams and they packed 51 g grams etc - so Yes I would definitely buy from them again. They answered all my queries on email and sometimes that would take a day but obviously they dont all speak English and they would have had to find out some of the information and then type back in English. Anyway good service in my opinion. Cheers
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