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Please help! Hand sanitizers formula
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@RDchemist15 You’re exactly right, contact time is the issue. If you spray, you just won’t apply enough liquid to ensure that you get full coverage for long enough, as the little amount that gets sprayed will evaporate too quickly.Theoretically, I imagine you could thoroughly spray your hands, and you might be able to get the same coverage and amount on both hands by drenching your hands in sprayed solution.But what I see happening in practice is that people lightly mist their hands and consider it done, as can for example be seen in this video with 1.3 million views (after about 4:10): https://youtu.be/jlLXe8m6zdk?t=250 The whole procedure lasts 6 seconds and I’d bet money that his hands were dry after that time.On a more anecdotal base, I have never seen another medical professional use a spray nor known a hospital offer spray disinfection. It’s always been liquid or gel, provided in large volume pump dispensers, used in liberal amounts.Finally, as much as I love to question authority and find my own way of doing things, now is a time to follow the WHO instructions as shown above. It’s just crazy to me that so many people seem to make a perfectly good product, but then use it in a way where they may as well not bother. -
@Agate
Makes sense. But I don’t think I’d call the product dangerous so much as human’s ability to follow instructions. If the product said ensure contact time of 30s and people didn’t follow that, I’m not sure the product can be faulted. The same applies to most sanitizers I’d say. Before Covid I’d be willing to bet people use way less gel then required as they typically only rub for 5-10 seconds.
To me this just sounds like sunscreen issue. People put on way less then they should by not following directions but I can’t fault the product for that. Both seem like education issues.
Tbh before Covid I was definitely in that category for hand sanitizer, even in liquid form, as practically no package states contact time. -
@RDchemist15 - I think there is some responsibility on the manufacturer to ensure that their product is used properly. Simply putting words on a container and expecting consumers to follow what is said is not enough. You have to also anticipate how people will actually use the product too and do things (maybe with the packaging) to increase the chances people use it right.
I see sunscreen as a bit different because if they don’t use enough, they’ll get burned. Next time, they’ll use more. They won’t know they used a hand sanitizer wrong until they catch a disease which could be fatal.
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^^ That ^^
Thanks Perry. -
The sunscreen comparison ain’t the best because most people still use not enough to get the indicated SPF. The result is not necessarily a sunburn but cancer, something which shows only in decades and upon repeated inadequate use. Else, you’re absolutely right; prepare for the fact that most consumers behave like brainless zombies. At the pharmacy, we’re also supposed to write something like ‘To be rectally applied 3 times a day’ on suppositories because simply stating ‘3 suppositories per day’ will have some individuals swallow them, put them in their ears or even sticking them on the ankle with a band-aid (seriously, no kidding!). Once, a doctor told the user of a decongestant nose-spray ‘Use as needed’… well, she had many needs and use them not up to 3 times per day for max a week but over about a dozen times per day for several months! -
The fallacy in all of this argument is the assumption that consumer will use a spray improperly, but will use a gel properly. That’s not a good assumption at all.
You can write the clearest directions possible on any product … the issue is will the consumer even bother to read it. For something so simple as a hand sanitizer, I would assume most people think they know how to use a hand sanitizer without feeling the need to read the directions.
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Just wondering whether adding something hygroscopic (propylene glycol) to the spray would make the situation any better. The logic being it should prolong contact with skin. Not going to make a sanitizer, just curious.
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Recent developments has shown that the consumer doesn’t know how to use soap.
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@MarkBroussard Clearly most people don’t know how to effectively use sanitizer and are safer washing hands with soap, but this isn’t always practical. So I argue that a bottle which easily dispenses the right amount increases the odds of people using enough sanitizer.
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It’s easy enough to calibrate a pump to deliver a specified quantity of product. The major issue is actually cleansing well under the fingernails which is where most pathogenic germs/microbes “hide” … the issue is not the format of the product, sprays and gels will work equally well if used properly.
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The World Health Organization recommended two alcohol-based handrub (ABHR) formulations, which are all liquid forms, not gels and need to pour on to the hand and rubbing hand. There is a study to compare the effectiveness of spray ABHR and poured ABHR( WHO Recommendation) which shown the result that handrubbing with sprayed ABHR was non-inferior to rubbing with ABHR. This study also cited some previous studies said effective spray ABHR may be no need to hand rub but it fail to confirm to this .
1.World Health Organization. (2011). Guide to local production: WHO-recommended handrub formulations. 2010.2.Tan, J. B. X., de Kraker, M. E., Pires, D., Soule, H., & Pittet, D. (2020). Hand Rubbing with Sprayed Alcohol-Based Hand Rub: An Alternative Method for Effective Hand Hygiene. Journal of Hospital Infection. -
Giving too much information to patients will most likely end up with less information learned/memorized.
The same thing goes for all these methods of rubbing/washing your hands. In my opinion, these steps are only making something so easy (to rub/wash your hands) so hard and stressful. No one is going to memorize all those steps. Even if you apply all those steps rigorously, you will have a fairly good result but will have sterile hands.
Regarding dosage, I don’t think there is any fixed quantity. It will strictly depend on patient to patient. The biggest difference is how big/small the hands are. -
Yes, this is all getting rather silly as the only thing that really matters is complete coverage of the hands and sufficient contact time.
One should only be using Hand Sanitizer if hand washing is not available since it is known that hand sanitizer is no more effective than hand washing for 30 seconds. And, if your hands are dirty, it reduces the effectiveness of the hand sanitizer.
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It’s easy enough to calibrate a pump to deliver a specified quantity of product.Fair enough, whichever way you can achieve that enough product is dispensed. I personally wouldn’t know how to do that, and I imagine many DIYers reading on here won’t either, so that’s who my admittedly generalized warning was geared towards.
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I just want to say thanks for all the comments. I am helping some EMT’s with high strength no fluff skin sanitizer. We so often equate weight and milliliters as the same. IPA 99% is .78 of water. The tricky part for me was the Sepimax Zen emulsifier is by weight given 1.3% usage rate. I correctly measured by volume the liquids, but incorrectly calculated the emulsifier weight based on a 1kg, instead of the actual 850 g. Just a word of caution to be mindful of volumes and weight. BTW it just came out thicker than desired but usable.
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