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PH SHAVE CREAM BOWL
Please, Does
anyone know the approximate PH of a shaving creamwiht
KOH 5,0% a
NaOH 5,30 %,
Trietanolamina 1% -
Miristic
acid 11,5,%stearic vegetable acid 7,5%
Coconut 9,50,
Glicerin 5%,
water
( 100%),my PH is in 13 now. Have ane one is help me please? Shave cream bowl
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19 Replies
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According to the calculations I just made, you are using more than twice the required amount of bases to saponify the oils. This means your product is more likely to dissolve the skin than act as a shaving cream. Hardly surprising you got a pH of 13 which is highly caustic. I suggest that you first educate yourself on stoichiometry and SAP values before undertaking this kind of formulation.
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You mention coconut - is this coconut oil or coconut fatty acid? Either way, it may be advantagous to increase this to about 12%.
For information, the pH ought to be about 9.
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Sorry, NAoh 0,30% not 5,30%. This formula is Croda in this : i used 0,30%
Shave cream formula
About oil is Babassu - Orbignya Oleifera Seed Oil
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Dear Johnb, yes i used Orbignya Oleifera Seed Oil (Babassu oil).
0,30% NaOH and 5,30% KOH. I cooked it for 1 hour. I increased to 12% oil and lower in the water?
Thanks you very much for tray help me. -
Dear Belassi, thanks for help me. I’m sorry, i I wrote wrong. I used
5,30 % KOH and 0,30% NaOH. I cooked it for 1 hour. -
I see that it is a Croda formulation but only available in Latin America so we cannot view it.
The water phase works out to about 59-60%.
Perhaps the Stearic Acid is higher than 7.5%???
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Noted. But the fact that the pH is way too high indicates that you have excess base in the formula.
There is a lot more in that formula than you told us. Have you prepared it exactly according to the listed ingredients? -
Dear Belassi, I took the formula menthol, Luryl Sulphate, Crodalan, Crodapearl,
and Dietanolamide. I will make like shave cream Taylor Old Bond.I read that you have a lot of experience … Thank you for helping me.Do you think I change the oil of Babassu Coconut for coconut acid?If Yes, could you indicate the% of coconut acid? -
Dear Belassi, I measured again today the PH, I made the sample on Wednesday. and this in 10
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Dear David08848 . Stearic Acid 7,5 % - i used.
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Actually, you will get a better sensorial if you use less base than is required to neutralize all of the Stearic Acid … try dropping your base content down to 3.0% or so.
The first question I have is: Why use KOH, NaOH and Triethanolamine? It’s overkill since they all perform the same function. Your softest cream is going to be with KOH … you can cut out two ingredients.
Coconut Oil or Coconut Acid … what can you purchase in your home location? If you have an option use a bit of each.
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Dear Mark, thanks for replying. I’m trying to reproduce a formulation of Croda. I researched and bought some shaving creams, Taylor, Proraso. … and all use
at least the NaOH and KOH. The creams are great.Taylor use Triethanolamine too and Proraso Acid Lacit.
About 3% You say reduce the stearic acid? of 7.5% to 3%?but then I won’t know calculate as KOH and NaOH used.
About coconut oil and Coconut acid, yes if possible to buy too. -
Sorry, I meant reduce your NaOH and KOH to 3% … leave the stearic acid at 7.5%
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The Croda formula is a starting point but you will need to have a good understanding as to what makes a good shaving cream. In particular there are some people here who are far more expert than I, in that they have been willing to experiment with different types of fatty acid and percentages of K to Na.
I agree with Mark that TEA should be removed, but I’d recommend 90% KOH to 10% NaOH because the calculator at soapcalc.net has an option for that. You can use that calculator to calculate the required amounts of fatty acids and base.
Too much coconut oil is too cleansing and harsh. Oleic and castor oil are conditioning; castor oil gives lots of bubbles and can compensate for the poor bubble level of oleic. The formula actually includes synthetics; frankly you don’t need them. Aim for a pH of 9-10, preferably the lower side.
Above all see the previous discussions on this forum about this topic. -
Remember that formulations offered by raw materials manufacturers are purely to promote the company’s products and do not always (in fact very rarely) give access to a commercially viable formula.
Can I suggest that, rather than blindly following a formula given in a sales leaflet, you carry our some experimental work to see for yourself the effect of varying the amounts of the different components that you wish to use.
That is to learn about what you are doing rather than relying on the efforts of others who have different motives than yourself (selling cosmetics raw materials).
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Proraso uses the Lactic Acid to adjust the pH down. @belassi just gave you some good advice.
I think you need to step back and ask yourself this question: Is the inclusion of this ingredient going to improve my formulation. If the answer is “No” then don’t include it … it’s unnecessary and just drives up your cost and formulation complexity.
I understand that you are just learning … but, heed the advice I just gave you and it will make you a much better formulator … clean, direct formulations that do the intended job with no unnecessary ingredients.
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Each of the bases used gives the shaving cream certain essential characteristics. It’s true that KOH is the most important of the three as it creates a soap that is a bit more soluble but NaOH also adds “body” to the KOH and needs to be used at a particular ratio to the KOH to perform well. Somewhere in the 5/1, 6/1, 7/1 range. TEA adds creaminess to the lather and helps to contribute to the pearlessence of the cream. (Castor Oil is high in Ricinoleic acid which does produce lather but the bubble size is too great and the soap that is created is too water soluble to last very long)
As far as the oil phase, Stearic Acid is your main ingredient here because it creates a lather that is full of tiny bubbles that don’t break down too easily and assists in creating emollient lather but since it’s lather isn’t the best for this purpose used alone it needs some assistance. Often Myristic Acid is used in this type of formula because of where it sits on the fatty acid chain and coconut oil or coconut fatty acids are used in even smaller percentages also because of their lathering characteristics.
Since this kind of formula is from the early to mid 20th century, it would be the best idea to do your research using cosmetic chemistry or soap making books from that period. I have done a ton of research since 2004 and have a document that is 158 pages that includes formulas and information from these kind of books, my observations and experimentation and my numerous formulas trying out different hypotheses. I’m almost there but need to go down one more road before I can call my formula perfect.
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I think @Belassi hit on the issue early on. Don’t spitball on the percentages. These are saponified products and you need to use SAP values as an integral part of the Formula design.
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Dear David,
Thank you very much. I’m going to do a search. I appreciate your opinion.
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