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Panthenol Based Hair Treatment without Quats
Hi everyone, I am going through a concept to develop a organic & natural but very effective hair treatment for hair damaged from bleaching and combing etc. One that can be used daily as well.
My formulator thinks its functional without the normal squats, i.e., Behentrimonium Chloride, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, BTMS etc.It has polyquaterium 11, hydrolysed keratin. I do not think its enough without the quats and maybe some arginine, cystine and ceramides.
Does anyone have any experience of great damage repair conditioners without quats ( Olaplex excluded)
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11 Replies
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Without quats —- it doesn’t work.
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Thanks Belassi. My sentiments exactly. Its tough enough this product will be formulated without silicons but to exclude the known quats doesn’t seem logical to me.
Do you know which quats/combinations of quats imparts the best conditioning to damaged hair and can be used max 3x weekly? I do like the verb conditioners as they are packed with Quats but not sure how they work
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I want to speak to my formulator to reconsider his formula tomorrow afternoon with some suggestions on notable ingredients
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Polyquaternium 11 wouldn’t qualify as natural or organic under any standards I’m familiar with. I’ve never found panthenol to be noticeably effective.
You might try coconut oil.
But quats & silicones will actually work better. If performance is a higher priority than “natural” that’s the route I’d go. If “natural” is what you want then you’ll have to sacrifice performance.
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I can’t get BTMS here which is why I ceased trying to develop a conditioner. The one I developed, I tried all sorts; it had CETAC but that is good only for detangling, its conditioning effect is minimal. I tried duplicating Sedal but without the behentrimonium chloride, it didn’t get the job done.
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Hydroxtpropyltrimonium Guar will give you a good conditioning effect similar to quats particularly body and softness and wet/dry combing.Can also add oils olive oil ; Olivem 1000.
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Is there any reason why Rheovis CDE can’t be used for personal care but only for laundry softeners?
Bob, is Dehyquart Guar the same as you mentioned? -
but hydroxypropyltrimonium guar is a quat
the full name for it is “hydroxypropyltrimethyl ammonium guar chloride”; granted, it is a mouthful, but shows its true nature
@Belassi my best guess is that the level of residual impurities (unreacted monomers, which are much more harmful than the finished polymer) is not routinely tested on Rheovis CDE, and for that reason, a company as large as BASF is not willing to sell it for direct human-use applications without some kind of assurance that it’s safe for that purpose
however, the fact they sell very similar products specifically for human use means that the demand for human-use Rheovis CDE is insufficient for them to consider implementing those extra process and QC checks, so they play it safe by restricting its sale for use in laundry products only
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BeLassi—-Dehyquart Guar is similar and if you can get it should work fine for you? https://www.ulprospector.com/en/na/PersonalCare/Detail/75/132896/Dehyquart-Guar-HP?st=1
@Toge but hydroxypropyltrimonium guar is a quat???
QUAT is a vague generalization as many cationic polymers are not necessarily functionally equivalent to monomeric cationic surfactants such as BTMS. -
Thanks guys. I will get a sample of that cationic guar and try it. Unfortunately I can’t access the formulation sheets at ULP because it’s not officially available in Latin America.
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I use hydroxypropyltrimonium guar in some of my hair masks. test results have been satisfactory so far. Does anyone know the buildup potential for this quat compared to others e.g., BTMS?
@ perry. Yes I know Polyquaterium 11 isn’t ‘natural’ but its the best ingredient i can think o to provide the needed hold in the conditioner. Do you know of a natural based replacement that can also do the job as well?
Coconut oil although excellent conditioning oil is quite dated for me. Its virtually in every product and from differentiation/ marketing perspective not catchy enough. Besides, I prefer this product to be as oil free as possible for fine hair ( I am incorporating many fatty alcohols)
I read somewhere ( I can’t remember though) about the substantivity of panthenol + Hydrolised keratin on hair. Why do you think pantheon isn’t good enough. Can you share more?
Finally, I am thinking of introducting Ferulic + Maleic Acid to this mix.
I have not seen any studies indicating what Ferulic does for the hair. Does anyone here have more info?
As for malice acid ( I don’t want to step on Loreal and the olaplexes of this world) but I have seen no patent restricting the use of maleic acid in hair products…?
Phew. Formulating isn’t easy
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