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Optiphen will be the death of me !!!!
Hey guys, I love to make these beautiful and creamy emulsified body butters for my friends and I but every time I add Optiphen plus at the end- the viscosity drops ( and so does my heart) by almost 50% ( almost to a chunky soupy partly opaque mix). No I put it in at temps < 40C but not exactly at RT. My butters I think will be a thicker texture by the time they are at RT- henceforth the decision. Now, once the viscosity drops I switch over to vigorous blending with the hand blender and it eventually does come back to thick and smoother texture again.
My question is :-
1) Should I try placing it at RT- will it mix well enough in a thick emulsion to provide adequate protection?
2) I hate to change to 2-3 different preservatives- Phenoxyethanol separately then and add another anti fungal- sorbic acid etc. I hear caprylyl glycol is the problem child in Optiphen plus- would a phenoxyethanol ethyhexylglycerin mix be a better broad spectrum mix? and lastly-
3) Since it does regain its texture and consistency and viscosity- is it okay- do you think it will still be a stable emulsion?TIA
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20 Replies
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I think the group needs a little more information.
Assuming your pH is below 6, considering your choice?
My personal theory is….(and this is just me)…. if you emulsion is so close to the edge…that a preservative upsets it…than you haven’t build a good enough system. Since you did not show your formula….we do not even know the emulsifier…and builders you used.
I think better answers will be forthcoming if you provide more information.
I use E 9010….but then come right back and add some 1,2-hexanediol and 1,2-octanediol (caprylyl glycol). Never had an issue. But I am usually using a 3 way blend of a Montanov, some 165 and GSC. Anything 165 based…is gonna be pretty hard to destroy.
Aloha. -
@Graillotion
Thanks for the reply. Oh I didn’t print the formula as I know that a lot of people had issues with Optiphen plus and I was wondering if people had tried any specific methodology. So here goes the formula:-
It is a water in oil emulsion
Phase A
Shea butter - 12 %
Cocoa butter- 12%
Sunflower oi-15%
Almond oil - 12%
Olivem 900- 8.25%
Stearic acid- 2 %Phase B- DW- QS
Magnesium sulfate - 0.5 %
Sodium gluconate - 0.5%Phase C
Corn starch- 0.5%Phase D
EO- 1 %- Blend of lavender, patchouli, sage and lemongrass
Tocopherol- 1%Phase E
Optiphen plus - 1%Heated phase A and B separately.
Gentle poured phase B into A- waiting for small portions to mix completely given it is w/o emulsion. Use hand blender at low shear.
Put in Phase C
By the time it is coming down to < 50%- it has started to thicken nicely- with nice glistening sheen
added EO and Vit E- kept on blending- still continues to thicken
Once < 40 deg, added optiphen plus ( now I stop stirring when I dump it in- maybe should keep blending)- the viscosity drops as said above.
I blend with hand blender at high shear and after a few minutes it does come back to a thick and smooth finish. By the next day it is soft, malleable hard as a body butter.so here it is
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Oh and sorry- pH is usually 5-5.5 - so def < 6 for the optiphen plus
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Ah… w/o…out of my league….every venture I took down that path…caused hair loss…and I have none to spare.
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@Graillotion
You are too funny Thanks though.
@ Pattsi @MarkBroussard
@Paprik @Microformulation - any suggestions -
Are you formulating a natural w/o emulsion?
I’ve seen similar attempts from some DIY(?) sites years ago.I’ve never used Olivem 900.
I played with Cetyl PEG/PPG-10/1 Dimethicone and Optiphen plus, no issue with viscosity drop instantly.
My non-formulator thoughts.
1. Why was Stearic acid there?
2. Have you checked your lipids polarity? HLB?
3. Dumping 1% Optiphen plus at once might be too much, have you tried adding slowly?
4. I don’t thing olivem 900 as a sole emulsifier would make stable emulsion, you may have to do stay test.
5.
6.
7.some ref. formulation.
https://www.hallstarbeauty.com/product/olivem-900/what else.
Lets wait for more experienced members. -
@Pattsi thanks for the insight. I would definitely try adding Optiphen plus slowly. Stearic acid was meant to be co emulsifier/ thickener with the Olivem 900. Can try a different low HLB emulsifier to support Olivem (I just love the feel that Olivem gives with this)- as I said the emulsion comes around beautifully till I add the preservative. Thanks for the link and I will try out some variations too.
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You have to use more stabilizing ingredients with Optiphen. For most emulsions, it works better to use the min amount necessary. I use .75%. Then you have to ensure the emulsion is cooled below room temperature for at least 6 hours with 24 hours being the best. Then add a few drops at a time. Its the absolute worst for some emulsions. Optiphen has the widest and easiest range for beginners to use and it’s eco cert but it’s incredibly destablizing for some formulas. I don’t know exactly why but this is not the first complaint I’ve heard. I’d like to switch my preservative system away from optiphen but haven’t found an all purpose solution. But also, if it destabilizes a formula, don’t worry. Wait a few days and remix, it usually restabilizes but it doesn’t look as pretty.
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@ProfessorHerb
thanks for the reply and I will keep on working on all the suggestions above -
just one additional hint.
If you make a W/O emulsion it is good to incorporate the Conservation System into the Water Phase otherwise the phase that needs to be prevented from forming micro bacterial contamination will probably don’t have enough of the material incorporated. Later added “Waterphase” to a W/O emulsion will make new Droplets and therefore do not interact with the other water droplets in the system. if they would do your emulsion would not be stable and you would see coalescence and Phase separation. so you only will get the dissociation part into the water droplets and that can sometimes not be enough. You can Properly reduce conservation if you add it to the water phase directly.
PS optiphen Plus is very active within the Emulsifier layer and therefore can be Problematic for Stability.
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@gordof thanks for that- in fact I was thinking of the same. Reading more about Optiphen plus- it is heat sensitive till 80 degrees- so was thinking of adding to water phase after heating and checking temps and then slowly add to oil phase.
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Phenonip is a much better option. And less heat sensitive. It doesn’t cause viscosity issues as per my experience.
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Gordof said:just one additional hint.
If you make a W/O emulsion it is good to incorporate the Conservation System into the Water Phase otherwise the phase that needs to be prevented from forming micro bacterial contamination will probably don’t have enough of the material incorporated. Later added “Waterphase” to a W/O emulsion will make new Droplets and therefore do not interact with the other water droplets in the system. if they would do your emulsion would not be stable and you would see coalescence and Phase separation. so you only will get the dissociation part into the water droplets and that can sometimes not be enough. You can Properly reduce conservation if you add it to the water phase directly.
PS optiphen Plus is very active within the Emulsifier layer and therefore can be Problematic for Stability.
If I am not wrong adding a preservative to the waterphase is critical with w/o because oil is a continuous phase. So addicting a preservative in the end isn’t effective at all, as it won’t get where it’s needed.
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@ngarayeva001 - Yes, that is what I got as well. and hopefully, it will work better too. Thanks
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Optiphen is a water based preservative. It’s probably not ideal for use in emulsified body butters. Also check that the ph of your preservative matches that of your formula before you add it.
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Gordof said:just one additional hint.
If you make a W/O emulsion it is good to incorporate the Conservation System into the Water Phase otherwise the phase that needs to be prevented from forming micro bacterial contamination will probably don’t have enough of the material incorporated. Later added “Waterphase” to a W/O emulsion will make new Droplets and therefore do not interact with the other water droplets in the system. if they would do your emulsion would not be stable and you would see coalescence and Phase separation. so you only will get the dissociation part into the water droplets and that can sometimes not be enough. You can Properly reduce conservation if you add it to the water phase directly.
PS optiphen Plus is very active within the Emulsifier layer and therefore can be Problematic for Stability.
Hello! I hope Im not derailing this thread too much but just wanted to ensure Im not misunderstanding this comment. Is the suggestion to add Optiphen into the water phase and then combine the oil phase? Apologies in advance if Im misunderstanding this. Thanks!
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chrystad72 said:
Hello! I hope Im not derailing this thread too much but just wanted to ensure Im not misunderstanding this comment. Is the suggestion to add Optiphen into the water phase and then combine the oil phase? Apologies in advance if Im misunderstanding this. Thanks!
Right
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Stearic acid is an anionic o/w emulsifier with very high HLB, it shouldn’t be here
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chrystad72 said:Gordof said:just one additional hint.
If you make a W/O emulsion it is good to incorporate the Conservation System into the Water Phase otherwise the phase that needs to be prevented from forming micro bacterial contamination will probably don’t have enough of the material incorporated. Later added “Waterphase” to a W/O emulsion will make new Droplets and therefore do not interact with the other water droplets in the system. if they would do your emulsion would not be stable and you would see coalescence and Phase separation. so you only will get the dissociation part into the water droplets and that can sometimes not be enough. You can Properly reduce conservation if you add it to the water phase directly.
PS optiphen Plus is very active within the Emulsifier layer and therefore can be Problematic for Stability.
Hello! I hope Im not derailing this thread too much but just wanted to ensure Im not misunderstanding this comment. Is the suggestion to add Optiphen into the water phase and then combine the oil phase? Apologies in advance if Im misunderstanding this. Thanks!
hi yes with w/O emulsions you should add the conservation system to the water phase previously of Emulsification. The Theory is that after building the Emulsion if you add other water-soluble ingredients or in this case actives that need to be active in the water to protect the water phase from microbes they will just form new droplets within your Emulsion and not be incorporated into the other droplets even if you are homogenizing. Of course, theory and reality are not always 100 % correct but in general, if you add them afterward they will mainly be separated from the water or solubilized in the Oil Phase. Therefore only a small amount is dissociating into the water droplets and this may not be enough to do the job which leads to a higher necessary amount of conservation system to increase dissociation equilibrium.
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The problem is the Caprylyl Glycol in the Optiphen Plus. Caprylyl Glycol blows viscosity in most emulsions. You would be better off using PE9010 + Gluconolactone (and) Sodium Benzoate
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