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Natural Dishwashing Liqud
Formulation:
Aqua
Potassium Cocoate 25%
CMEA 1% (as per belassi)
NaCl 0.5% (can be adjusted depends on the thickness of product)
Preservative
Scent
ColorantMy CMEA is bead-like and i’ve read about it and it needs hot water to be dissolved. I tested it out. Dissolve 1% in water at around 70 degC. When it was still hot, it wasnt clear and the cmea clumps on surface a bit but when I mix it of course it disperses. But now at room temp, it looks incorparated but the product is not clear. Should I test it already with cocoate to see some reactions? Or any suggestions first with how to use CMEA? Thanks!
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18 Replies
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UPDATE: After putting the remaining ingredients, the product is now clear. BUT…there’s no viscosity. I already up the NaCl to 1%. Should I introduce a thickener? Any recommendations?
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Can someone help me
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Have you tried thickening the Potassium Cocoate without adding the CMEA to determine how much salt it takes to thicken. Maybe try looking for information on thickening liquid soap because that is essentially what you are trying to do.What is the active concentration of your potassium cocoate?CMEA is often pearl looking when dissolved in water with no other surfactants. -
You use Peg-150 stearate as a thickener
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ozgirl said:Have you tried thickening the Potassium Cocoate without adding the CMEA to determine how much salt it takes to thicken. Maybe try looking for information on thickening liquid soap because that is essentially what you are trying to do.What is the active concentration of your potassium cocoate?CMEA is often pearl looking when dissolved in water with no other surfactants.
I havent tried that. Im thinking that maybe this my CMEA (pearlike) is the culprit since I heat it to about 70degC before it can dissolve. But I let it cool to room temp before adding other ingredients. My supplier said he has a liquid form of cmea but is a bit diluted. Maybe ill try that. Do you have any suggestions for the thickener besides salt?
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Formulation:
Aqua
Hydroxyethyl Cellulose 0.5% (ive already tried natrosol too same result)
Potassium Cocoate 25%
CMEA 1% (as per @belassi)
NaCl 0.5%
Preservative
When I mixed cocoate + cmea = good product but no viscosity
When I mixed cocoate + cmea + thickener = the picture above happensHelp?
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Have you tried starting with a lower concentration of salt and increasing at small increments because if you put too much it will just thin right out again.
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JonahRay said:Have you tried starting with a lower concentration of salt and increasing at small increments because if you put too much it will just thin right out again.
Yes I have. But I havent increased more than 1% as I didn’t see any changes, compared to when I use SLES or LABS
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Likely, the reason is the excessively high pH. Potassium cocoate must be about pH 10? You can’t lower it either. This kind of thing is why the world moved to synthetics. Further, potassium cocoate is terrible to the skin, much worse than even SLS.
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Belassi said:Likely, the reason is the excessively high pH. Potassium cocoate must be about pH 10? You can’t lower it either. This kind of thing is why the world moved to synthetics. Further, potassium cocoate is terrible to the skin, much worse than even SLS.
How do you propose I make it natural? Should I just use Sodium lauroyl sarcosinate?
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How do you propose I make it natural? Should I just use Sodium lauroyl sarcosinate?
The purpose of a dishwashing liquid is to wash dishes. Such products are part of the biggest mass market imaginable and as such, subject to economies of scale that result in incredibly low-cost production. Before you get any further with this idea I suggest:1. Go into the supermarket and find the lowest priced and the highest priced product. Adjust price for 1Kg of each. Calculate the average.
2. Calculate your own sale price for your proposed ‘natural’ version, including labour, packaging, and marketing, plus a 50% retail margin.
3. Compare YOUR retail price per kg with the one you calculated for the retail products earlier.
4. Do you still think you have a chance of selling in competition with them? Even when your ‘natural’ product does not work as well?Just trying to save you possible disappointment. Unless of course this idea is only for YOU in which case, fine.
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@Belassi Good advice once again. Too few people look at what the market will pay for a product. They feel that they will sell without regard to cost, since they are “natural.” If they do a marketing study, they will find that even the “natural” versions are within those constraints. I get requests foir revisions last minute all the time “I know you said it would be expensive if we did “x”, but now it is too expensive to make…” -
Belassi said:How do you propose I make it natural? Should I just use Sodium lauroyl sarcosinate?
The purpose of a dishwashing liquid is to wash dishes. Such products are part of the biggest mass market imaginable and as such, subject to economies of scale that result in incredibly low-cost production. Before you get any further with this idea I suggest:1. Go into the supermarket and find the lowest priced and the highest priced product. Adjust price for 1Kg of each. Calculate the average.
2. Calculate your own sale price for your proposed ‘natural’ version, including labour, packaging, and marketing, plus a 50% retail margin.
3. Compare YOUR retail price per kg with the one you calculated for the retail products earlier.
4. Do you still think you have a chance of selling in competition with them? Even when your ‘natural’ product does not work as well?Just trying to save you possible disappointment. Unless of course this idea is only for YOU in which case, fine.
Hello I appreciate your concern for the market price but I don’t really plan on being a millionaire out of this. I just want to be able to make and use a natural dishwashing liquid. That’s it.
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It would be appropriate if people would state … oh I give up.
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The problem with “natural” saponified soaps is that they’re too harsh, way worse than synthetic dishwashes.
Maybe there’s a niche market for MILD, make-believe “naturals” like glucosides (derived from natural glucose), thickened with natural Xantan gum or something like that
but you’d need to spend countless hours reading AND experimenting yourself to get a good enough formulation.CDEA is far from natural, BTW.
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There’s a very healthy market for natural dishwashing liquids, particularly for mom’s with newborns … a subset of the New Mom/Baby Market. Glucosides would be your best surfactants to use in this application thickened with Xanthan Gum … you’ll need the CP Kelco xanthan gum that gives a clear solution. And, make sure you use food grade preservatives. It’s a nice niche target market willing to pay a premium. Keep it simple … scents & colorants are not welcome by this market segment.
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Gunther said:The problem with “natural” saponified soaps is that they’re too harsh, way worse than synthetic dishwashes.
Maybe there’s a niche market for MILD, make-believe “naturals” like glucosides (derived from natural glucose), thickened with natural Xantan gum or something like that
but you’d need to spend countless hours reading AND experimenting yourself to get a good enough formulation.CDEA is far from natural, BTW.
Why bold experimenting yourself? I did experiment before I asked here.
I used CMEA, btw.
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MarkBroussard said:@megcapati
There’s a very healthy market for natural dishwashing liquids, particularly for mom’s with newborns … a subset of the New Mom/Baby Market. Glucosides would be your best surfactants to use in this application thickened with Xanthan Gum … you’ll need the CP Kelco xanthan gum that gives a clear solution. And, make sure you use food grade preservatives. It’s a nice niche target market willing to pay a premium. Keep it simple … scents & colorants are not welcome by this market segment.
Thank you for your wonderful input! I have actually read about glucosides and may try that instead.
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