Micro bubbles in my body butter

Formulating

Micro bubbles in my body butter

Posted by Berry_8 on January 18, 2023 at 8:51 pm

I have made over 20 versions of a body butter and I’m trying to figure out what i am doing wrong to cause them to all have these very small air bubbles throughout the product. I make other creams all the time and i never have this issue.

I’ve tried using Montanov 202 and 68, usually paired with a little bit of a polymeric. Problem persists.

I’ve tried homogenizing and not homogenizing, problem persists.

I use an overhead mixer. I never introduce air while mixing by lifting the mixing head above the surface.

The butter comes out very thick, not sure if that could be contributing to it as i do have to mix on a higher power setting than normal sometimes to incorporate the cool-down ingredients. But the speed at which I mix doesn’t seem to have an effect on it either.

So i’m at a loss, what could be causing this? I’m not bothering to post the formulas because I have tried so many different ingredients and regardless of what i use the bubbles keep showing up, so I’m pretty sure its something to do with my process and not the formula itself.

Also, not sure if this means anything but the bubbles seem to become much more visible in the days AFTER. i make the product. I don’t really seem to notice them much on the day i actually produce it.

The butter seems stable and feels great i just don’t like the look of the bubbles!

Graillotion replied 1 year, 11 months ago 3 Members · 10 Replies
10 Replies

Paprik

Member
January 19, 2023 at 12:34 am

I guess you should bother with sharing the formula.
This is the only thing we can see and check - unfortunately we do not see how you heat, mix and cool the product.

It could be some of the ingredients causing some microbial growth? Or incompatibility? Hard to tell without the formula.
Graillotion

Member
January 19, 2023 at 12:55 am

If you are not introducing air….then share the formula…there is a possibility you are creating a reaction with ingredients.

Since the bubbles seem to be growing…this supports a concept of a reaction…or preservation issue….so formula would be more important than if they were present right after pouring, which would lean towards process.
Berry_8

Member
January 23, 2023 at 12:35 am

Ok I will post my formula below, the numbers are in %.

I’m thinking you guys are right and there is some kind of incompatibility going on. It’s so weird (and incredibly frustrating) to have air bubbles start growing in there, especially in just a matter of days!

Phase A

Water - Q.S.
GLDA - 0.2
Glycerin - 3
Propanediol - 2

Phase B

Cocoa butter - 2
Milk thistle oil - 2
Natrasil - 2.5
C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate - 3.7
Montanov L/68/202 - 2
Glyceryl Stearate Citrate - 0.75
AVC - 1
Carbomer - 0.2

Phase C (Cooldown)

Pentylene Glycol - 2
Hyaluronic Acid 4D - 1
Hexanediol/Caprylyl Glycol - 0.5
Tocopherol - 0.4
Fragramce - 0.8
Euxyl 9010 - 1

Citric Acid - to 5.7

I add phase A into phase B at 75-85 (depending on which montanov I’m using). Then I start mixing, careful not to inttroduce any air or mix too fast as it cools.

And that’s pretty much it.

Any possible incompatibility here?
Berry_8

Member
January 23, 2023 at 12:39 am

And @Graillotion thanks for all your tips. As you can probably tell many ingredients here I have chosen from comments you and others have made on this forum!
Graillotion

Member
January 23, 2023 at 12:55 am

Berry_8 said:

And @Graillotion thanks for all your tips. As you can probably tell many ingredients here I have chosen from comments you and others have made on this forum!

Hah…that did read like a ‘script’ to me.

Right off the bat…I do not see a conflict…but I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

So, if you I had to guess….then I might guess you are possibly introducing it as a contaminated ingredient?…. if your bubbles are actually growing…post production.

On this line:

Montanov L/68/202 - 2

Is that a total of 2%….or two percent of each? (If 2% of each…probably a little excessive. ) Don’t build viscosity with emulsifiers…but builders… like fatty alcohols…and every so many other options. Use emulsifiers….to emulsify. (You’ll be much happier.)
Berry_8

Member
January 23, 2023 at 1:22 am

Oh sorry, that is a total of 2% emulsifier. I have tried L, 68 and 202, but only one at a time.
Berry_8

Member
January 23, 2023 at 1:24 am

I guess maybe I will have to do some of the ol knockout tests and see which problematic ingredient it is. Hopefully that reveals the answer, otherwise…I just might give up!
Graillotion

Member
January 23, 2023 at 2:15 am

Maybe for first test…try taking pH from 5.7 quite possibly the bug’s favorite pH…to a more antimicrobial 4.7?
Berry_8

Member
January 23, 2023 at 2:45 am

ok, that’s a good idea. my carbomer is the preneutralised sodium carbomer however, so i think it will pretty much be inactive at that ph, or at least wont be providing any viscosity boost. but i will still do this just to see if the bubbles remain.

My hunch is telling me it’s the AVC. If i make the same formula with a different polymer at the same % the bubbles dont show up. But I also dont get the viscosity i want, because AVC seems to thicken up the cream a LOT more than EMT 10, for example. I also don’t get that special feel that AVC brings. This formula with AVC is a body butter, with EMT 10 it is a lotion.

I use AVC in other formulas and they dont ever form bubbles, however the most i have ever used before is 0.7%. Could it be possible that using a lot of AVC is somehow causing this to happen?
Graillotion

Member
January 23, 2023 at 3:22 am

Aristo AVC is very flexible… You can add it to the water phase…you can add it to the oil phase….and you can add it post emulsification. On the latter, make a slurry with your cool down glycols…this will help to disperse it a bit.

Try each of the different approaches…as part of your knock-outs.

I for example…will always put it in the oil phase….as I do not like working with thick water.