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Lecithin. Phosphatidylcholine. Rancidity. Miraculous power.
Act 1: I have a sample of Deoiled Soy Lecithin. Does this Lecithin go rancid? If yes, what is cheapest substance that I can easily get at bakery/kitchen to prevent rancidity? I read that Glucono delta Lactone and Citric Acid are antioxidants. Is it necessary to give it antioxidant?
This is my first time working with phospholipid.
https://bungeloders.com/assets/2020-10/BungeMaxx_Deoiled_Lecithin.pdf
The type of the said Lecithin is named Bungmaxx 1000 P.
That company is secretive. I cannot get much data from them.These are the secretive values of Bungmaxx 1000 P which I got from the secretive seller/salesperson:
AI (acetone insoluble matter/phospholipids) min. 97%
HI (hexane insoluble matter/impurities) 0.3 %
TI (toluene insoluble matter/impurities) 1.5 %Phosphatidylcholine (PC) 21% - 26%
Phosphatidylinositol (PI) 18% - 23%
Phosphatidylethanolamine (PE) 12% - 18%
Phosphatidic Acid (PA) 5% - 10%Nutritional information (per 100g)
- Energy 788/3244 kcal/kJ
- Protein <0.01 g
- Carbohydrate 8 g
of which sugar 4 g- Total fat as triglycerides 84 g
of which saturated 8 g
of which mono unsaturated 51 g
of which poly unsaturated 26 gFibre 0 g
Sodium <0.01 gIs that considered ‘Lecithin’ or ‘Phosphatidylcholine’ or ‘Soy derived Phosphatidylcholine’? I read somewhere that says there is a distinction as to what it is called. This is the politically correct and pedantic part. I am confused by it. What I have is none stated on the list; it is near to one of the labels at the same time not even near. Schrödinger Effect.
Amount of what fatty acids is not stated. Linoleic Acid seems to be the most famous of all for acne/blemish/problem skin. However, Phosphatidylcholine-bound Linoleic Acid is superior to Glycerolipid-bound Linoleic Acid. What I understood is Linoleic Acid in “fat” such as Sunflower Oil is not as good as Linoleic Acid in Phosphatidylcholine. It is because Phosphatidylcholine spontaneously becomes bilayer which mimics cells, this quality fluidises both skin barrier and sebum.
Act 2: Here is my ‘new’ formulation:
Secretive Deoiled Soy Lecithin 2% - 3%
Sorbitol 4%
Erythritol 3%
Xanthan Gum 0.5%
Potassium Sorbate 0.2%
Glucono delta Lactone 3% - 5%
DMDM Hydantoin 0.6%
Water to 100%Is that amount of Lecithin good enough to fluidise skin barrier and sebum, and then on skin it is ‘naturally’ metabolised to Choline and God-given Linoleic Acid to magically cure acne/blemish/problematic skin conditions?
After this paragraph is my rant and rave. Read at your own risk!
Without that formulation, Lecithin in water (I make it thick that it slimes!) only for one or two days, it really shut me up. No more complaint about dry fingers. I had consistent dry fingers, so dry that I felt I needed to chop them off. The feeling is argh. No amount of DIY (previous) formulations works. No amount of Petroleum jelly or Mineral Oil works.
Next, I was infected by the latest cult named ‘maskne’ or mask acne. No amount of Salicylic Acid, Tretinoin, Adapalene, nor whatever prescription strength at the pharmacy works. Since the day I started slapping Lecithin slime on my whole body, my face is now nice overall, still many unsightly red bumps here and there but not getting worse (and if it does get worse it is not happening overnight). I do not truly understand the science of Lecithin (other than reading this) but it works on me.
Notice that I do not ask about lipo-nano-somal thing. If Lecithin is said to spontaneously form bilayer or liposome structure in water then liposome is already formed without extra work! No need homogeniser or sonicator as what YouTubers are doing.
Good old stirring will do like Mozafari Method and THIS.Heating is required only to ‘melt’ the fatty acids of Lecithin, I think, kind of open up the structure. Instruction says continue to stir until cool, this part I understand that fatty acids begin reverting to their ‘natural’ shape and close, hence encapsulating whatever it is in water phase. So, it is a relax and contract cycle. Sort of like opening and closing the palm and fingers grabbing something. I could be incorrect but this is what I understood based on my finite understanding.
I do not think it needs that long of heating. ‘Heat and hold’ is what old school formulators do. They will heat and hold their water and oil phase for a very long time. According to them it serves two purposes. 1) “Thoroughly” melt butters, fats, and oils. 2) Kill “all” pathogens.I always thought something is melted then it is already melted. They probably mean splitting atoms to quarks in order to be qualified as ‘properly and completely melted’.
They should invest in an autoclave. Too expensive? No problem! We have pressure cooker!
A pressure cooker is inexpensive and does exactly the same as an autoclave. I used pressure cooker to do tissue culture. Totally no issue.
Heat + pressure = Spores farewell. May even deactivate prion. -
3 Replies
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Just a shorty here:What you have is lecithin. To call it phosphatidylcholine (PC) or the like would require higher purity. Lecithin is, for magical reasons, completely insoluble in acetone and hence, acetone stripping is standard in the production of deoiled lecithin. PC is soluble in cold (and more so in hot) ethanol whereas most other phospholipids are not soluble in cold EtOH.If you’re a fan of traceability, name the plant source if you feel like it, else just call it lecithin.The culprit of rancidity are the polyunsaturated fatty acid chains. A chelate will only do so much, you also need a fat soluble antioxidant (e.g. tocopherol, best combined with ascorbyl palmitate).Alternatively, use fully hydrogenated lecithin…. it’s not going rancid as fast but that does not contain any unsaturated fatty acids and hence, may not help you.Metabolism of lecithin from topical application is a matter of debate. However, lecithin is water suspensible which gives it certain perks compared to other oils.Don’t have time for more today, sorry. -
Thank you very much @Pharma . I invite you to explain more, whenever possible for you to do so.
Whatever knowledge from you is most helpful no matter how short it is! At least you answer in full, I think, because I learn so much from you and it is the reality! Etched in my fatty blob between my ears. Lots of weird stuff that are not taught in skoolz.
I could understand why you are not the kind of person who tells people “Use this brand. Use that substance. Don’t argue” because you are an educator-esque and you wrote some mad thing. It is always very good to have people like you who neither selling products nor follow a product simply because a company/manufacturer says it is the best.
Anyway, you indirectly gave me a new assignment. LOL! I plan to purchase 99.9% Ethanol to purify Lecithin. I can get that aforementioned deoiled Lecithin and 99.9% EtOH inexpensively, so there is no harm to having fun with it and learning new stuff. You make it sound easy. I got this, and it does look easy.
However, I do not know what to watch out for other than PC will precipitate in EtOH. LMAO. Maybe a coffee filter could filter the precipitation, whatever that is soluble in EtOH will drip/leak out of the coffee filter.
Hmm. Sadly, Tocopherol and Ascorbyl Palmitate are VERY expensive. As expensive as Trimethylglycine which you mentioned here. I will use BHT instead.
0.1% BHT of 2% Lecithin is 0.001%.
My weighing scale although reads 0.001g, minimum mass needs to be at least 5g to 9g for the thing to move.
I will measure it as ‘final volume’ - 20g finished product, 0.02g BHT.
I can only hope that BHT will not become pro-oxidant because 0.02g is 10 times more than 0.002g as it is not based on the amount of Lecithin.Ah. I understand now. Hydrogenated Lecithin is only good as barrier, not much penetrative power, not much of a carrier of active.
Normal Lecithin behaves the opposite of Hydrogenated Lecithin.
Mix them to get the best qualities of the two.
I tried getting hydrogenated one but to no avail.Oh no I am not going to make my own hydrogenated Lecithin. LOL. The processes and materials required to hydrogenating common cooking oil already frighten me.
Ah ha! Lecithin is SUSPENDED in water! I presumed that it forms vesicle and end of story. Because this is the impression that the Internet gives me - Lecithin is merely a skin-like carrier, good for nothing else.
I can now ‘see’ it in my mind’s eye how it actually works! It deposits a film of lipid on skin. No wonder a bloody simple Lecithin & Water mixture works very well on my skin condition.
Skin appears terribly greasy but surprisingly no greasy feel even when it is thickly applied. Strangely sticky but not sticky the way humectants are. -
LoL, yea, that’s one of my publications (the officially best, I guess).The link to the lecithin page is actually one I used too when starting to work with lecithin
. The PC I worked with was under others purified according to the mentioned protocol although I did use boiling dry ethanol to dissolve acetone-deoiled lecithin, cooled it down to -50°C and then centrifuged the heck out of it (and repeated the process twice again). For practical reasons, go with 96% EtOH, -20°C (household freezer) and whatever centrifuge you can get. Filtering will not work, the stuff will clog everything. Just letting it sediment can work but takes an awful lot of time and you lose a fair amount of PC in the sediment.Pure PC is great for liposomes/vesicles or mixed micelles whereas deoiled lecithin is way better for most other (cream related) applications.If you feel experimental: I also synthesised ascorbyl palmitate (synonym: palmitoyl ascorbic acid) for so called mixed aspasomes (liposomes of PC and ascorbyl palmitate). Quite easy if you have concentrated sulfuric acid, ascorbic acid, palmitic (stearic works too) acid, and an apolar solvent such as diethyl ether.BHT works too.Regarding suspended vs. vesicles: High amounts of vesicles require a bit more than just dumping PC into water. Doing so results in a mixture of a lot of things, a small part vesicles but also other structures. Hence, suspension is a more appropriate description of the result.I’ll keep that thread on my ‘to do, but later’ list .
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