Is it possible? - Chemists Corner

Hair

Is it possible?

Posted by belassi on December 29, 2019 at 6:26 pm

Is it possible to make a conditioner with what I have available? EG:
NO BTMS. NO PQ10.
I have cetrimonium chloride, the usual fatty alcohols, polyquaternium 7, dimethicone 500cst, water-dispersible silicone (Silsense DW18), dimethicone petrolatum (Polytrap), Lamesoft PO65, Cyclopentasiloxane, hydrolysed keratin and Polyquart H81, which I normally use in shampoos.

belassi replied 4 years, 11 months ago 5 Members · 12 Replies
12 Replies

Gunther

Member
December 29, 2019 at 8:03 pm

It’s definitely possible.

I did some blind tests, and volunteer testers couldn’t find any difference between conditioners made with BTMS-50 vs those made with Cetrimonium chloride + cetyl alcohol.
In fact, I personally find Cetrimonium chloride a bit better at detangling.

Polyquaternium-7?
You can add it, but Polyquaternium-10 or even Guar HPTC works better.

Dimethicone 500?
Is a higher molecular weight silicone better for conditioners, or is it the other way around? I already forgot.

Water dispersible silicone?
I thick they’ll just get drained off without being deposited on hair, They just add cost and may lead to emulsion separation problems.

Dimethicone+petrolatum?
I don’t think rinse off conditioners can deposit petrolatum on hair. So it just increases cost and may lead to emulsion separation problems.

Lamesoft PO-65?
IMO the glucoside may reduce the viscosity and I don’t think the glyceryl oleate will be deposited on hair in a rinse off conditioner.

Cyclopentasiloxane?
It will just end up being rinsed off. I don’t think it will deposited on hair as longer molecular weight silicones do. I might be wrong though.

Hydrolyzed keratin?
Hard to preserve and doesn’t do much in rinse off products. Better left as a claims ingredient at 0.1-0.01% or so.

Polyquart H81?
That would work, and probably replace Polyquaternium-10.
Gunther

Member
December 29, 2019 at 8:08 pm

This study is very eye opening
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/ff15/e99672fdee23ec9779d72b605ad150b4e2d0.pdf
belassi

Member
December 29, 2019 at 9:10 pm

Very interesting, thanks.
OldPerry

Member
December 29, 2019 at 9:38 pm

VO5 conditioner was pretty much Cetrimonium Chloride, Cetyl alcohol, fragrance and some adjustment agents. Yes, you can make a conditioner with what you’ve got.
belassi

Member
December 29, 2019 at 10:39 pm

The cetrimonium chloride I have is just the standard stuff, can anyone give me a starting percentage to try?
OldPerry

Member
December 29, 2019 at 10:43 pm

We used 1.5% cetrimonium chloride but I think that was of a 25% solution.
belassi

Member
December 30, 2019 at 12:32 am

Thanks
MarkBroussard

Member
December 30, 2019 at 1:51 am

@Belassi:

2% or so Cetrimonium Chloride is a good place to start
belassi

Member
December 30, 2019 at 9:47 pm

I tried 2% before, but I had comments that it wasn’t detangling enough. Would 5% be OK?
MarkBroussard

Member
December 31, 2019 at 12:55 am

Yes, just trial and error the % until you get something your test panel likes. Make a 5% batch and see how your customers like it.
luiscuevasii

Member
January 2, 2020 at 3:37 am

Im ussing 3% ctac and 3% cetyl/stearyl alcohol n 50:50 and works fine in a standard condiciones, i ussed pq7 and 1000cps dimethicone but i didnt notice any difference
belassi

Member
January 2, 2020 at 4:33 pm

thanks