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Increase Viscosity of Hair Gel
I am trying to make a thick and stiff hair gel similar to Eco Styler where the gel does not spill out the container when flipped upside down.
Formula:
- Distilled Water: 90%
- Polyvinylpyrrolidone: 3%
- PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil: 3%
- Glycerin: 2%
- Fragrance: 1%
- Sodium Carbomer: 0.5%
- Propylene Glycol (and) Diazolidinyl Urea (and) Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate: 0.5%
I have made this with and without the preservative and get the same result: a runny gel.
I am using the maximum recommended amount of Sodium Carbomer. Are there any notable issues with using more than that? Is there a different way to thicken it without increasing the carbomer?
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18 Replies
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Any suggestions, please? Thanks in advance!
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I think the castor oil may reduce viscosity too.
But have you tried a standard carbomer (e.g Carbopol 940) and then neutralize it with something like TEA?
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@Perry I was under the impression that PEG-40 HCO worked as a thickener as well as a solubilizer. Is this not true?
I haven’t tried a standard carbomer yet, I was hoping to avoid neutralization. ???? I guess that will be my next purchase!
Thank you.
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Increase your carbomer, maybe 0.75% or 4v4n 1% of that is what it takes to get your desired viscosity. You can try ETD (easy to disperse maybe ultrez 21). If not, maybe a carbopol 940. Don’t be afraid of neutralizing.
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@Camel according to what you reach the maximum level of sodium carbomer, actually it is clear with sush level of carbomer viscosity will not be good for hair gel.
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@Camel It’d be advisable as well to check the technical info in Lubrizol site. They even have a chart where it shows the different viscosity and consistency expected with each of the Carbopol polymers.
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Bio Kelp Ferment will increase viscosity almost to the point where it won’t fall out. Have you tried a cationic thickener? I’m not sure it’ll work but it will thicken it and add some conditioning benefits. But I have not made a traditional hair gel before.
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@Camel not all carbomers are the same. (Perhaps I’ll run a seminar on that some day?) Use Polygel HG from 3V Sigma USA and neutralize with AMP-95 at a ratio of 0.80 to 1.00 Polygel. At 0.50% you should obtain 50,000 mPas, at 1.00% you will get closer to 100,000 mPas. Turn that jar upside down and jiggle: nothing comes out. The bonus: that material will cost you half as much as Lubrizol stuff. Better results at half the price, can’t beat that. Using TEA is good too, as Perry suggests, but just be sure to use 99% not 85%. The latter has 10% DEA in it; not wanted or allowed in California.
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@Camel 1. check the product pH first if is less than 6.5 then adjust it.
2.While adding Polyvinylpyrrolidone in product just mix it with Glycerin and transfer it to main phase.
3.change the polymer . -
@chemicalmatt I do prefer AMP-95 to TEA although price difference is huge. Do you think neutralization of Carbomer 940 with AMP-95 compared with TEA or any other alkali will produce a better gel in terms of a typical gel property. I mean hold, clarity, etc.
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@chemicalmatt You made turn to the “dark” (or bright) side, hehe. I’ve been a fan of Carbopol for years, but I’ll try 3V Polygel’s now????
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If you haven’t neutralized it, that could be the problem as you dont really get much viscosity if its isnt.
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Polyvinylpyrrolidone may not be compatible with carbomer based ingredients. It’s generally used as an antiseptic so I imagine that it’s ph may be different to carbomer. Is it actually needed. If so, look for a replacement alternative then try that. Carbomer based ingredients are extremely PH sensitive and they will not gel in a non conducive environment. You have an ingredient that disrupts carbomer function for thickening and I’m guessing it’s Polyvinylpyrrolidone.
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sean9980 said:If you haven’t neutralized it, that could be the problem as you dont really get much viscosity if its isnt.
Sodium Carbomer is a pre-neutralized carbomer, so it does not require neutralization for gelling (according to the seller, at least).
Urbanxt said:Polyvinylpyrrolidone may not be compatible with carbomer based ingredients. It’s generally used as an antiseptic so I imagine that it’s ph may be different to carbomer. Is it actually needed. If so, look for a replacement alternative then try that. Carbomer based ingredients are extremely PH sensitive and they will not gel in a non conducive environment. You have an ingredient that disrupts carbomer function for thickening and I’m guessing it’s Polyvinylpyrrolidone.I have seen many commercial hair gels use both PVP and carbomer, including the one I am “copying.”
Here is the INCI for the product I am looking at:
Water, Carbomer, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, PVP, Glycerin, Triethanolamine, Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate, Polysorbate 20, Tetrasodium EDTA, Fragrance
chemicalmatt said:@Camel not all carbomers are the same. (Perhaps I’ll run a seminar on that some day?) Use Polygel HG from 3V Sigma USA and neutralize with AMP-95 at a ratio of 0.80 to 1.00 Polygel. At 0.50% you should obtain 50,000 mPas, at 1.00% you will get closer to 100,000 mPas. Turn that jar upside down and jiggle: nothing comes out. The bonus: that material will cost you half as much as Lubrizol stuff. Better results at half the price, can’t beat that. Using TEA is good too, as Perry suggests, but just be sure to use 99% not 85%. The latter has 10% DEA in it; not wanted or allowed in California.Thank you for your insight. I am only able to purchase from resellers. I don’t see this ingredient available, but I will continue to research it!
Thank you to everyone else who responded, I will take all your comments into consideration!
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@Camel Understood there, you are not purchasing commercial quantities yet. @Chemist77 TEA 99% will form a clear gel with any carbomer when neutralized to pH 6.5 - 7.5, Tromethamine (TRISamino from ANGUS) probably behaves best, but for clarity check the “Transmittance at 425nm” data on the TDS of the carbomer. In all my years I never considered gel clarity a big deal, but marketing peeps do so there it is. @Urbanxt you are either a neophyte formulator or smoking some powerful ganja these days: PVP is a hair fixative polymer, not an antiseptic - at least not here. You are no doubt thinking of povidone-iodine, where it is used as a conveyance for iodine, the actual antiseptic. Camel is using it here to style the hair and he/she is using too much of it too. 1.00% PVP K-90 is plenty enough to do the job. Camel should reduce the PEG-40HCO and fragrance way down also. This gel as written will have your hair standing straight up and smelling from a city block away.
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chemicalmatt said:@Camel Understood there, you are not purchasing commercial quantities yet. Camel is using it here to style the hair and he/she is using too much of it too. 1.00% PVP K-90 is plenty enough to do the job. Camel should reduce the PEG-40HCO and fragrance way down also. This gel as written will have your hair standing straight up and smelling from a city block away.
Correct, I only purchase from re-packers and make these products as a hobby/for personal use. The seller said the typical use of PVP in a hair gel is 4-7% so I assumed 3% was modest. ???? I’ll take your advice and try cutting down the PVP, PEG-40 HCO, and fragrance and see what results I get!
Thank you!
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@chemicalmatt absolutely bang-on on clarity and marketing peeps. I have had a chance formula where I combined Carbomer 940 with a Dow polymer called Aculyn 88. I used 3% of PVPK 90, the gel is amost like a glue in hold but clarity is a big turn off for prospective customers. Do you think this will be inherent as we combine 2 different polymer chemistries or PVP K90 could be causing the issue. Though I have done without fragrance and PVP too, not much success on clarity.
Any thoughts?? -
Update:
I made some adjustments to the formula and was finally able to create a thick gel that does not spill when the jar is flipped upside down!
- Water - 93%
- Glycerin - 2%
- PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil - 2%
- Polyvinylpyrrolidone - 1%
- Sodium Carbomer - 1%
- Fragrance - 0.5%
- Propylene Glycol (and) Diazolidinyl Urea (and) Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate - 0.5%
I will continue to play around with this formula but I am happy with these results.
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