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I Need Assistance on My Dishwash Liquid
I have foaming issue with me liquid soap. Its low in foaming. I decided to increase the Active Surfactant Matter (ASM). So in 100L prep, I have sulphonic acid 5.5%, SLES 5%, Cocamidopropyl Betaine 3%, Cocamide DEA 1%, Natrosol (hydroxyethylcellulose) 0.004% thickening agent/hydrotrope. After the neutralization of the acid, I added betaine and the mixture become thick and Cocamide made it thicker and cloudy. I know SLES and betaine give good viscosity but on addition of Cocamide ‘messed up’ the whole prep-turgid and cloudy.
My main goal here is to increase the ASM to achieve high foam in the final prooduct. I will appreciate professional and generous advice. What’s wrong with this formular, and what can I do differently to achieve my goal?Thank you.
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16 Replies
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Here is an old article from HAPPI that might give you some ideas.
http://www.happi.com/issues/2011-03/view_features/formulating-manual-dishwash-detergents/As you have identifed your low foaming issue is probably due to low active surfactant material. What concentration of actives do the SLES and Cocamidopropyl betaine that you are using have? The formula you have given is similar to one in the article (see link) but in the article it refers to 4% active SLES which would actually be 16% of a 25% active SLES in the formula or 5.7% of a 70% active SLES. Similarly Cocamidopropyl betaine is usually sold as a 30% or 45% active solution. Check you actual active levels of your surfactants and adjust your formula accordingly.
Once you have adjusted your formula (if necessary) to account for the different active levels of your surfactants and you find you still need to increase your active matter start by increasing the SLES and /or the sulphonic acid surfactants first as these are most likely to contribute to foaming and are probably also the cheapest.
I would also suggest not using Cocamide DEA because it is now classified as a possible carcinogen due to the DEA content. Try using Cocamide MEA instead as it has similar properties with no carcinogenicity issues.
Hope this helps
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@ozgirl. Thank you so much for generously sharing this info. You just got me thinking. I got some of these chemicals without the manufacturer product info label. Henceforth, I will demand for it and work with it accordingly.
What a great forum! -
@ozgirl. For exxample in 100L dishwash prep, I want cocamidopropy betaine @ 3%and the ASM is 36%, this means 3/36*100=8.33L. If I’m correct this will be too costly.
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@Bimsmide ozgirl is bang on money here, other day only I had a little chat with my supplier and jokingly we had this suggestion that we should add LABSA to our shampoo formula as many customers feel that foaming is not up to the mark. On a more serious note I suppose you could play with LABSA for more foaming and adjust the rest of the things for ASM.
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@Bismide. Your calculations are correct.
The 15% active matter formula in the article is just a suggestion for a medium quality dishwashing liquid. If you are making an economy formula you could go with a lower percentage of active surfactant matter.
Maybe try starting by making a sample with 15% ASM to see if this improves your foaming and then decrease the amount ASM until you get to a cost that is acceptable but foaming that is still ok.
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are you adding natrosol at the end or at the beginning?
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nabil, have you noted the date of this thread?
If you are just querying the feasibility of adding Natrosol to the formula, I recommend that you do not do this but adjust the viscosity by some other means such as salt.
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yes i have noted that thread is old one.
but i was thinking about using Natrosol….
i am wandering if we use Natrosol , then we do not need salt to achieve optimum viscosity? -
Why increase the cost of the formula when you can achieve it with salt itself but @nabil start a new thread as it is almost 3 years old.
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the natrosol is cheap. and the average dosage is so low to affect the cost i guess
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Natrosol may be cheap but you should also factor in the added production costs (particularly time) involved in dispersing/dissolving the material.
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U can’t compare apple with oranges @nabil, salt is almost free literally. Read sodium chloride here.
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i do understand gays for the difference between the 2 products.
but as the market that i am targeting is requesting cheap, consistence, smelly products.
no body care about green products even they do not like it…. -
Sodium chloride will give you a cheap product; LABSA, sodium hydroxide, a foam booster like cocamidopropylamine oxide, fragrance, glutaraldehyde as preservative and you are good to go. Dont forget SLES though, the king of good times. Now these few chosen ones can be played around to adjust your formula between 30/40 cents to as high as you want.
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thx Chemist77, for the advice
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Thanks @Chemist77, the thread is old but I just learnt a lot from you now. In fact, I always do! Thanks again.
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