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How do you work out the amount of emusifier?
Hey guys,
just wondering, how’s everyone figuring out the amount of emulsifier needed for a emulsion?
I know, that it varies and there is not a thumb rule. I also know, it depends on the temperature, type of ingredient, speed of mixing, type of shear etc … But would appreciate any of your tips and tricks
Something like - I make few batches and start with ratios 1:3.5 ; 1:4 ; 1:5 …
If that looks alright, you do stability testing?One of the reason why I’m asking is that annoying whitening/soaping effect. That’s caused by high input of emulsifier, right? I don’t really want to use silicons, but I’m struggling with this issue.
That said, one more question. If I’m using for example Montanov, Glyceryl Stearate SE and Cetyl Alcohol. Those GS SE and CA are also considered co-emulsifiers. How do I calculate them into that ratio?
EG :
Montanov 68 - 3%
Glyceryl Stearate SE - 1.5%
Cetyl Alcohol - 2%
Would those be counted as 6.5% of total emulsifiers input? Even those they are not “fully” considered emulsifiers?
I hope that makes sense.Thank you very much for any reply
Stay safe, happy formulating! :blush: -
8 Replies
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Because emulsifiers have different potencies…you have phrased your question in an difficult way to answer.
1) Use the mfg’s website. They include very detailed instructions.
2) The amount of lipids you use will alter the amount of (the same) emulsifier you use. 10% oils vs 25% oils….changes everything even with the same emulsifier.
3) Some emulsifiers will do at .5% what others will do at 3%
Yes, soaping is worse with some emulsifiers vs others. But that is usually addressed elsewhere in the formula. But yes, using more emulsifier than necessary aggravates the situation.
Search ‘soaping’ on this site’s search bar, and your question will be answered over and over, even ways to do it without adding the dreaded dimethicone.
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I’m not an expert, but from what I have gleaned online:
-1- You are better off using multiple emulsifiers, rather than a single one. Keep in mind that most of the Montanov products are combinations already. If something is labeled as a co-emulsifier or secondary emulsifier, you definitely cannot use that as your sole emulsifier, and the typical advice is that even if you are using a product that is labeled a primary emulsifier, the recommendation is that you try to include at least one additional emulsifying ingredient.
-2- I am not sure if I would even attempt 1 to 3.5. It seems as if most people use a ratio of around 1 to 4, and that 1 to 5 often works, but the risk of instability increases. Yes, I believe you need to add up all emulsifiers as part of your calculation.
-3- A polarizing topic on here recently, but the consensus seems to be that you can increase stability by including a component such as xanthan gum. Xanthan gum itself is not considered an emulsifier or co-emulsifier, though.
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Paprik said:Hey guys,
just wondering, how’s everyone figuring out the amount of emulsifier needed for a emulsion?
I know, that it varies and there is not a thumb rule. I also know, it depends on the temperature, type of ingredient, speed of mixing, type of shear etc … But would appreciate any of your tips and tricksSomething like - I make few batches and start with ratios 1:3.5 ; 1:4 ; 1:5 …
If that looks alright, you do stability testing?One of the reason why I’m asking is that annoying whitening/soaping effect. That’s caused by high input of emulsifier, right? I don’t really want to use silicons, but I’m struggling with this issue.
That said, one more question. If I’m using for example Montanov, Glyceryl Stearate SE and Cetyl Alcohol. Those GS SE and CA are also considered co-emulsifiers. How do I calculate them into that ratio?
EG :
Montanov 68 - 3%
Glyceryl Stearate SE - 1.5%
Cetyl Alcohol - 2%
Would those be counted as 6.5% of total emulsifiers input? Even those they are not “fully” considered emulsifiers?
I hope that makes sense.Thank you very much for any reply
Stay safe, happy formulating! :blush: Why do you have to use two emulsifiers instead of one? As far as I know the Montanov 68 is a stand alone emulsifier, and it already has a built in stabilizer in the name of Cetostearyl alcohol. The same is with the GMS SE.
About the dosage. Just use the manufacturer’s advices. Always start with the minimum required amount and test it. It’s not a good idea to put so many percents of the emulsifier.
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@Paprik Many things to tell you may help:
The cetyl Alcohol is fatty alcohol not emulsifier.
Soaping effect is normal effect of using emulsifiers so I think many things can help to reduce it depends on the best solution for you : you can reduce the amount of emulsifier, adding amount of Ethanol, using more low hlb emulsifier.
About ratio the best thing is making some sample even in low quantity to see the result because there is no best ratio for all systems as you already said. -
Hello you guys,
THANK YOU all, for your replies! Really appreciate that.
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@Fekher
Can I ask how much ethanol you would ordinarily add in to a preparation? I’m assuming it’s about 5%…and that you add this at cool down? Thank you. -
@suswang8 for sure it must be in cool down and I guess 5% is good level to work as antifoam.
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ggpetrov said:
Why do you have to use two emulsifiers instead of one? As far as I know the Montanov 68 is a stand alone emulsifier, and it already has a built in stabilizer in the name of Cetostearyl alcohol. The same is with the GMS SE.
Pretty safe to assume you have not worked with the Montanov 68?
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