How can I improve my rinse-out hair conditioner?

Tagged: formuation-advice, hair-conditioner, slip

Formulating

How can I improve my rinse-out hair conditioner?

Posted by Camel on May 1, 2022 at 7:29 am
I made a fairly simple hair conditioner, but I am not feeling too pleased with the results. The main issue I am having with it is that it does not have much slip upon application.

Formula: (pH 4.5)
- Water: up to 100%
- BTMS-25: 4%
- C10-18 Triglycerides: 3% (for viscosity)
- Propanediol: 2%
- Dimethicone: 1% (350 cst)
- Polyquaternium-10: 0.5%
- Hydroxyethylcellulose: 0.5%
- Phenonip: 0.5% (Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Ethylparaben, Butylparaben, Propylparaben)
I have a few questions:
1. How can I improve the slip upon application?
2. How much dimethicone is typically used in a conditioner?
3. Is propanediol (or glycerin) beneficial to the formula or should I remove it?
Here is the INCI for the commercial conditioner I currently use and like, with significantly more slip than mine:

Water, Cetyl Alcohol, Behenamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Stearyl Alcohol, Citric Acid, Glutamic Acid, Sodium Benzoate, Caprylyl Glycol, 1, 2-Hexanediol, Fragrance
Abdullah replied 2 years, 6 months ago 5 Members · 8 Replies
8 Replies

Squinny

Member

May 1, 2022 at 10:58 pm

Hi I’m new to the forum and not a chemist just a hobbyist learning to make my own skin products mainly. I too am trying to make a nice hair conditioner an so far haven’t come close to the commercial ones I use. Looking at the ingredients for the one you like it has Behenamidopropyl Dimethylamine and you are using BTMS-25 (Behentrimoium Methosulphate + Cetearyl Alcohol) so not sure of impact of different emulsifies here. Also the Glutamic Acid in your commercial one seems to be the humectant they use.

FYI the one I made below which is ok but not great is this (Note that I put the BTMS-25 in heated water phase and I dont have an oil phase (formula is based on the place in Australia where I bought my BTMS-25 from)

Heated Water Phase
BTMS-25 emulsifier	5.00%
Distilled Water	65.00%
Lavender Water	19.70%
Gotu Kola extract (Glycerin based)	5.00%
Hydrolyzed Oats	1.50%
Panthanol DL powder	1.50%
Niacinamide powder	1.00%
Cool down phase
Liquid Germall plus	0.50%
Essential Oils - Lavender	0.30%
Vitamin E	0.50%
	100.00%

I also did another version for my partner which I had to throw out as after a few weeks smelt aweful (fishy and just yuk) and it contained lemmongrass essential oil rather than lavender and I used only distilled water not the lavender hydrosol) - so not sure if the lemongrass EO reacted with the BTMS 25 or what ? Also I noted that when the BTMS-25 gets too hot it smells fishy - is this normal? It seems ok (not fishy) when it cools down. I have had far more success with my skin creams lotions etc than my delving into Hair conditioners so woul dbe great to have a nice formula with ingredients I can source easily in Australia (not USA as too exxy for me now with exchange rates and shipping). Cheers - Squinny
PS I have learnt so much form all you folks here already just skimming through various topics.

Abdullah

Member
May 2, 2022 at 12:18 am

I will remove pq10
Paprik

Member
May 2, 2022 at 3:13 am

1. Remove HEC and use cationic guar (hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride).
+ Add high HLB non-ionic emulsifier. It will build viscosity and improve wash off.
2. I think 1-2% is fine.
3. Yep, Glycerin is beneficial. Use Glycerin instead of Propanediol. It’s way cheaper and I dare to say way more effective.
Camel

Member
May 2, 2022 at 6:05 am

Abdullah said:

I will remove pq10

Thank you; I will try that.

Paprik said:

1. Remove HEC and use cationic guar (hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride).
+ Add high HLB non-ionic emulsifier. It will build viscosity and improve wash off.
2. I think 1-2% is fine.
3. Yep, Glycerin is beneficial. Use Glycerin instead of Propanediol. It’s way cheaper and I dare to say way more effective.

1. I will have to purchase that but I will give it a try. Is 0.3% a good amount? Would Ceteareth-20 or Ceteareth-6 Olivate be good choices for non-ionic emulsifiers?

2. Thank you; I will experiment with 2%.

3. Thanks for clarifying. Do you think 2% glycerin is enough?
ketchito

Member
May 2, 2022 at 1:55 pm

@Camel I’d increase BTMS-25 up to 5%, and Dimethicone up to 2%. If possible, switch to a 1000 cps dimethicone.
Abdullah

Member
May 2, 2022 at 3:05 pm

@Paprik can you explain what is the benefit of humectant like glycerin for hair?

In my opinion humectants attract water and we don’t want water in our hair.

I am ready to change my opinion.
Paprik

Member
May 2, 2022 at 6:27 pm

Well, that depends. In hair masks for very dry and damaged hair it is really beneficial. As it draws moisture to the porous and damaged/dry hair. Same as conditioner (it also prevents drying of the product), but it helps retain some of the moisture so the hair don’t get super dry after - Plus it fights frizziness.

In my (humble) opinion, it is good to have a good humectant in hair products.

And @Camel, yeah, 2% should be fine. Try it out and see.
Abdullah

Member
May 3, 2022 at 8:38 am

Paprik said:

Well, that depends. In hair masks for very dry and damaged hair it is really beneficial. As it draws moisture to the porous and damaged/dry hair. Same as conditioner (it also prevents drying of the product), but it helps retain some of the moisture so the hair don’t get super dry after - Plus it fights frizziness.

In my (humble) opinion, it is good to have a good humectant in hair products.

And @Camel, yeah, 2% should be fine. Try it out and see.

Thanks