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Help with substituting emulsifiers and perservatives
Hi Chemist corner! I’ve been a long time lurker, first time poster (made an account after finally getting the courage to make my own DIY serum)
I am attempting to DIY a fairly complex serum for which I found the recipe online. I have two questions:
1) The recipe uses Polysorbate 80 and Sorbitan Oleate as an emulsification system. I have CreamMaker CA-20 on hand from makingcosmetics. Can I use that instead? If yes, what quantities would you add and do you think it would change the texture too much?
2) I also have Germaben II on hand and not Optiphen. Can I substitute at the same 1% amount and do you see any drawbacks to using Germaben vs. Optiphen?
Water phase:
35% - 1% HA stock
10% - Ceramide complex
18.30% - Distilled water
2% - Glycerin
6% - Propylene glycolOil phase:
0.2% - Cholesterol
6% - Sea buckthorn seed oil
3% - Jojoba oil
2% - Sea buckthorn berry oil
1.25% - Polysorbate 80
3.75% - Sorbitan OleateFinal/after cool down:
1% - Tocopherol
2% - Green Tea Extract
2.5% - N-Acetyl Glucosamine
4% - Niacinamide
1% - Optiphen
2% - PanthenolAppreciate any insights you might be able to give me!
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2 Replies
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Some insights here, rookie driftmark: your emulsification system includes cholesterol, and at 0.20% that is plenty emulsifier along with the two surfactants. HLB figures around 7 - 8 if I did the math right, so you are getting a stable product, no? Not sure what that CA-20 is (INCI ???). Germaben II is MUCH better than Optiphen, so go ahead with that sub. (Ashland peeps may not like hearing that but what can they say?). You have too much of nearly everything in here, so tone this down. It appears to me somebody was trying to sell HYA and ceramides, likewise sea buckthorn anything, and that niacinamide content will give people the red face flush for sure. Cut all those things by half - at minimum - including tocopherol, panthenol, glucosamine. Add a little cetyl alcohol (1.0%) for stability, consistency and opacity. Also, do not heat up ceramides past 55C, unless it comes from another planet. Finally we do NOT call these compounds recipes - never - we call them FORMULATIONS. Recipes you can eat, right? Cheers.
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chemicalmatt said:Some insights here, rookie driftmark: your emulsification system includes cholesterol, and at 0.20% that is plenty emulsifier along with the two surfactants. HLB figures around 7 - 8 if I did the math right, so you are getting a stable product, no? Not sure what that CA-20 is (INCI ???). Germaben II is MUCH better than Optiphen, so go ahead with that sub. (Ashland peeps may not like hearing that but what can they say?). You have too much of nearly everything in here, so tone this down. It appears to me somebody was trying to sell HYA and ceramides, likewise sea buckthorn anything, and that niacinamide content will give people the red face flush for sure. Cut all those things by half - at minimum - including tocopherol, panthenol, glucosamine. Add a little cetyl alcohol (1.0%) for stability, consistency and opacity. Also, do not heat up ceramides past 55C, unless it comes from another planet. Finally we do NOT call these compounds recipes - never - we call them FORMULATIONS. Recipes you can eat, right? Cheers.
You are so incredibly helpful. Thanks for your response. This rookie really appreciates it! :smiley:
I’ll probably add way too much information here than you signed up for so apologies in advance!
1) Cream Maker CA20 consists of Cetearyl alcohol, ceteareth-20 (link here)
2) Noted re: Germaben. I will go ahead with that sub. You think 1% is ok for Germaben?
3) I know the number of ingredients is… a lot but here’s the part where there is a bit of a wall of text - I am following this formulation (I am learning!) by Stratia skin care founder - Alli. The formulation in her tutorial is for what eventually became the product “Liquid Gold” (see here). I have used this product and it works on my skin like nothing else has so far. So what I am attempting to do is re-create the store bought version as close as possible. The store version is a slightly evolved version of the initial formulation she posted on the blog (for example, the store version doesn’t have any N-Acetyl Glucosamine, evening primrose oil, or jojoba oil; it also doesn’t contain Optiphen and actually now that I look at it, pretty sure it uses Germaben II which is great because I have that already; it also actually does seem to have a bit of cetyl alcohol - not clear how much so that was a good tip). I know there is a debate on whether ceramide complex is actually effective and whether the easily available commercial product (SK-Influx V which is what I’d be getting from Formulator Sample Shop) is in the right ratio to be effective, but having tried the store-bought product I keep coming back to it for how it just makes my skin feel so much better than anything I’ve tried…
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