Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating help with bubbles

  • help with bubbles

    Posted by paulasbrito on March 20, 2018 at 11:22 am

    Hello,
    I have been making cream emulsions with just some basic ingredients.
    Normally: water (70%-80%) then a mix of oils and butter for the oil phase.
    Using xanthan gum and emulsifier waxes as well as thickeners like stereatic acid or cetyl alcohol.
    The creams have a nice feeling and thickeness and people I ave to try them are happy with these.
    My pain is the bubbles….
    I am using a hand mixer, then I tried with different blades but I still have those bubbles entrapped in the cream…
    Do you think that one of those overhead stirrers will help this?
    Do you think that something like the one in the picture will be able to mix a thick cream of about a 3kg batch?
    Thnk you so much for your help. 
    Best-Price-Stirrer-Mixer-Variable-Speed-Overhead-LAB-Agitator-By-BEXCO-Free-Ship

    Fekher replied 4 days, 16 hours ago 7 Members · 16 Replies
  • 16 Replies
  • paulasbrito

    Member
    March 20, 2018 at 12:34 pm

    I have been searching for this stirring issues. I wonder why aren’t hand blenders suitable, is it because they have too much rpm, even at low speeds?
    And the impellers? I guess an anchor impeler at reasonable low speed would emulsify the creams with no air entrapment (even if oil still hot).
    Is it necessary to stirr all the time it takes to cool down?
    I mean, I am stirring while both phases are hot, but I dont wait until its cold to finish stirring. I stirr it for a few minutes to emulsify and just leave until its about 35ºC to add the preservative + fragrance and mix it again when its already thick and cold..
    any suggestions?

  • OldPerry

    Member
    March 20, 2018 at 1:32 pm

    Hand blenders can be fine for lab samples. They just aren’t used much in professional labs because you can’t easily reproduce the effect in a large production tank.

    Yes, you should stir the whole time on cool down. Just not at the same high RPM.

    Hand mixers draw in too much air which creates the bubbles. When blending you need to keep the propeller submerged and avoid drawing in air.

  • paulasbrito

    Member
    March 20, 2018 at 1:44 pm

    thanks Perry.
    My feeling is that even at the lowest speed the hand mixer has too much rpm… Specially if I’m mixing the whole time its too much stirring… any idea on how much is the average reccommended rpm?

  • OldPerry

    Member
    March 20, 2018 at 2:23 pm

    Depends on many factors but most batches I’ve made in the lab use between 300 -900 RPM

  • paulasbrito

    Member
    March 20, 2018 at 2:33 pm

    exactly what I though..
    A regular kitchen blender has around 6000 rpm, its too much

  • belassi

    Member
    March 20, 2018 at 4:16 pm

    I really don’t understand why this should be happening with hot process. The pour should be thin enough while hot for any bubbles to rise to the top and dissipate. It must be the Xanthan gum keeping bubbles suspended.

  • DAS

    Member
    March 20, 2018 at 8:11 pm

    If you need something to blend you can find at home you can use that thing to make cream with a different blade. 

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B073CGC7KZ/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1521576392&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=cream+mixer+machine&dpPl=1&dpID=512n4%2BKZaiL&ref=plSrch

    I found that I had one at home the other day and used it to make soap, it surprised me, it has good speed and decent torque.

  • Fekher

    Member
    December 28, 2024 at 12:06 pm

    @Perry44 @chemicalmatt @ketchito @Abdullah i’am facing same problem low density of after shampoo with keys ingredients :Water, Cetearyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium alcohol, Ceteareth-20, parfum, preservative.

    So the best process I reached work with turbine at 30 hz (1800 rpm) for 15 minutes(T=75°C) then slow the speed to 20 hz just for economical reason at T=60°C I stop the turbine then at T=40°C I return on turbine to 30 hz for 10 minutes

    All the process I have anchor agitator works from 25 to 35 hz

    And at Cool phase I tried work lower speed 25 hz and It gived lower viscosity

    Please any solution to solve low density of after shampoo then any correction and improvement for process? Any share, input please

    • Abdullah

      Member
      December 28, 2024 at 8:30 pm

      Is this a conditioner?

      What is the percentage?

      What is Cetrimonium alcohol?

      • Fekher

        Member
        December 29, 2024 at 3:42 am

        @Abdullah yes it is hair conditioner, and Cetrimonium Chloride not alcohol Cetrimonium and Cetearyl alcohol near to 5%

        Also I worked with and without vacuum and really I didn’t notice any important difference.

        • Abdullah

          Member
          December 29, 2024 at 8:41 pm

          Use use ctac/FA at 1/4 ratio for Maximum viscosity

          • Fekher

            Member
            December 30, 2024 at 12:05 am

            I haven’t problem in viscosity my formulation is pretty good just the product has low density between 0.91 and 0.93 knowing that it can reach 1

            So I want what can I improve in process or formulation to reach density equal 1 just when i’am finishing from production not after days

    • Fekher

      Member
      December 31, 2024 at 12:08 am

      @Graillotion need your expertise for solving that please.

  • Fekher

    Member
    December 29, 2024 at 6:29 am
    • Aniela

      Member
      December 29, 2024 at 9:27 am

      Sorry, I wish I could help, but no experience with large batches as yet. Also, no experience with Cetrimonium chloride and Ceteareth-20.

      Hopefully, the more knowledgeable people will chime in. Fingers crossed🙂

      • Fekher

        Member
        December 29, 2024 at 10:51 am

        @Aniela whatever thanks a lot for your comment.

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