Help! What is making the color change??

Tagged: color, formula help

Formulating

Help! What is making the color change??

Posted by MariaB on August 17, 2022 at 6:42 pm

I have a cleanser I’m trying to formulate and it changes color after a few hours.

WHY??? I contacted the hydrosol supplier they said they haven’t had an issue with color changes, they said it might be the neo defend. I’ve done a couple different trials and eliminated the neo defend on one, and eliminated the burdock root and nettle extracts on another trial. It still changes color.

It starts out as almost clear and withing 1/2 hour it starts to turn a light blue, then darkening to a darker blue then changing to a light purple and then a darker purple. After it sits for about a week it starts to turn a pinky rose color. I’m at a loss for what can be changing the color.

Any suggestions or advice?

TIA!!

water 29.55

peppermint hydrosol 10%

eucalyptus hydrosol 10%

tea tree hydrosol 3%

aloe vera 200x powder .26%

neo defend (gluconolactone & sodium benzoate) 1%

phytocide aspen bark extract powder 2%

willow bark extract 10%

panthenol 2%

glycerin 2%

xanthan gum clear .46%

polyglucose lactylate blend (decyl glucoside & sodium lauroyl lactylate) 27.3%

algae extract .33%, agave extract .33%, mulberry extract .33%, burdock root extract .33%, nettle extract.33%, cucumber fruit extract.33%, citric acid

PhilGeis replied 3 years, 2 months ago 6 Members · 9 Replies
- color
- formula help
9 Replies

Pharma

Member
August 17, 2022 at 8:13 pm

Did you measure pH (several times during the colour changing hour)?

I would say it’s gluconolactone which hydrolyses (that is what it’s supposed to do) turning acidic and the dropping pH in turn causes something (likely anthocyanins) to change colour. Where exactly these molecules come from…. maybe the mulberry extract (red/blue mulberries contain lots of them)?
MariaB

Member
August 18, 2022 at 3:03 pm

I only measured the ph upon completion and it was 5.1, I just checked my last sample and the ph is the same 5.1.

The mulberry extract that I have is clear, but I’ll make a batch and eliminate it to see how/if it affects the color.

Thanks for your help!
MariaB

Member
August 18, 2022 at 4:22 pm

I also did make a batch without the gluconolactone and the color still changed.
Bill_Toge

Member
August 18, 2022 at 5:39 pm

iron and salicylic acid form a purple/red complex, but the colour change is usually instant

my best guess is that salicylic acid is slowly being released from willow bark extract, and it’s complexing with a source of iron

is your water deionised?
MariaB

Member
August 18, 2022 at 7:07 pm

No it is just distilled. I’ll eliminate the willow bark extract and see if changes anything.

thanks for your help!
Pharma

Member
August 18, 2022 at 7:17 pm

Unadulterated willow bark does not contain salicylic acid but salicin, a salicylic alcohol glucoside . Aspen may contain a small amount of free but more likely bound salicylic acid (most plants do contain small amounts thereof because it’s an important plant hormone) which might be higher than in other species (but still not high enough to be a valuable source for its isolation because, as said, it has a strong effect on plant growth and health). Nonetheless, the main salicylate constituent in aspen is salicin, too.

Only products from Active Micro Technologies contain salicylic acid… as a scientific report has shown, petrochemistry based SA has been added. So yes, the two plant extracts are highly likely to be adulterated with synthetic salicylic acid at unknown and varying levels (alongside some questionable quaternary ammonium compounds) and this might probably be a source for colour fomation (though proper chelation should minimise that). Reminds me of something: Where are the antioxidants in that formulation?
Graillotion

Member
August 18, 2022 at 7:26 pm

Pharma said:

Unadulterated willow bark does not contain salicylic acid but salicin, a salicylic alcohol glucoside . Aspen may contain a small amount of free but more likely bound salicylic acid (most plants do contain small amounts thereof because it’s an important plant hormone) which might be higher than in other species (but still not high enough to be a valuable source for its isolation because, as said, it has a strong effect on plant growth and health). Nonetheless, the main salicylate constituent in aspen is salicin, too.

Only products from Active Micro Technologies contain salicylic acid… as a scientific report has shown, petrochemistry based SA has been added. So yes, the two plant extracts are highly likely to be adulterated with synthetic salicylic acid at unknown and varying levels (alongside some questionable quaternary ammonium compounds) and this might probably be a source for colour fomation (though proper chelation should minimise that). Reminds me of something: Where are the antioxidants in that formulation?

Bingo…. The Luecidal people sell lots of extracts (via several repackers)…all laced with their nasty product. I think you nailed it.
gordof

Member
August 19, 2022 at 6:58 am

Another Possibility: Sometimes if you Combin Different extracts there can be many side reactions due to the fact that there are several Molukules solved in various extracts that can course reactions. do you get flocculation with the change of color does it stay clear all the time?

Although it can help to add a complexing agent to see if it is coursed by ions. Just eliminating it from the water does not do the trick because Plant extracts will contain quite a bit of them as well. So maybe add some NaEDTA or something similar to see if that helps?
PhilGeis

Member
August 19, 2022 at 10:23 am

to Pharma’s point
Please demand chemical analysis as justification for the eye of newt, toe of frog “natural” preservative efficacy. Efficacy of most is based on internet rumor and supplier hype with comforting names of “Neodefend” and “Phytocide” for at best weak combinations.