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Hand Sanitizer Sodium Carbomer issue
With all the craziness going on I figured I might try to formulate some hand sanitizer as it seems to be liquid gold in light of the coronavirus.
I ordered Sodium Carbomer and the company selling it advertised that it was good for using in hand sanitizer for thickening. Upon receipt I see they have updated their site to specify that it only works in a 70/30 ratio of 70% water and 30% Alcohol…. The CDC requires at least 60% alcohol for effective hand sanitizing.
This works great with water, but after adding alcohol it loses viscosity. Does anyone know if there is a way to get this to thicken with higher levels of alcohol?
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24 Replies
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yes: use more of it
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Use another thickener that can take the 70%. You can try Sepimax Zen. Assuming you are only using it for yourself and can take the cost of it.
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If you need a stiff gel you’re going to need to change carbomers; some varieties are designed to work in higher concentrations of ethanol.
However, I’ve tried carbomers around your tolerance and found that a flowable gel very similar to hand sanitizers I use personally happens around 55%wt ethanol.
It’s hard to give you more advice without knowing how much carbomer you’re using.
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Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Copolymer is good for this (one of many available Carbopol grades).
What are you neutralising with? This can make a big difference in hydroalcoholic systems - TEA or AMP will work much better than NaOH
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@Bill_Toge I will try adding more.
@LincsChemist Acrylates/c10-30 is double the price. What about Carbomer 980?
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I have a 70% EtOH hand sanitizer formula using 1% Carbomer 980 and we have issues with balling while rubbing the gel on your hands. Very nice gel, though-clear and thick.
Neutralization is done with AMP.
The Carbomer 980 isn’t rated highly by Lubrizol on their comparison charts between the carbomers for not having issues with fish eyes/balling, so that might factor in to your choice.
We had bulk in 980, so that’s why I ended up using it. However, I could definitely be missing a step here! Maybe a processing change would help with this.
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@Bill_Toge adding more didn’t work. It just glumps into white blobs.
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Am having the same problem. First I tried,
Glycerin 3%
Xanthan Gum 0.4%
Water 26%
Isopropyl Alcohol 70%
It looked good until about 40% of the alcohol was mixed in, then it started going stringy. I have since learnt that to use xanthan it would have to be xanthan CGT, I only have CG.Then I tried
Glycerin 3%
Ultrez 10 0.25%
Water 26.5%
Tried both Triethanol and Suttocide A to neutralise. both failed.
Isopropyl Alcohol 70%
This didn’t work either, just stayed liquid.Have seen a Belinda Carli vid that said Seppimax Zen would work but it seems to be sold out of everywhere I have looked (live in Australia and tried Aussie Soaps and New Directions).
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You will need the suitable neutralizer for the carbomer.
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@LincsChemist Acrylates/c10-30 is double the price. What about Carbomer 980?0.3%-0.4% works fine. sepimax zen require more & cost more. other polymer required more qty. Every polymer cost you more for now.
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@LincsChemist so .3-.4% Acrylates/c10-30 will work to thicken?
Can I still use Triethanolamine to neutralize at 70% ? I have that already.
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It depends on how thick you want. Try
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TEA didn’t work for me with carbomer 980 in a 70% ethanol product. The polymer started to salt out. AMP did work just fine.
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@LincsChemist - I ordered Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer, what % alcohol did you use to make yours?
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@lewhitak TEA can just lead to 60 % Alcohol as maximum for alcoholic gel.
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Hey guys, I’m having difficulty with thickening. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Grams 40 Water 9.8 Alcohol 91% 28.0 Aloe 1.2 Glycerin 0.8 Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer 0.2 triethanolamine 0.4 This was nice and thick before all the alcohol was added, but watered down after 28g alcohol. I tried adding .2 more triethanolamine with no affect, I then tried adding .1 more Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer with no affect.
Other Ingredients I have readily available:
Propylene Glycol
PEG-40 Castor oil -
If you have a look at the table @jemolian posted, TEA won’t work for your 77% v/v.
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@Pharma its 63.7 solution, not 70%
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Ups… haven’t seen that you use 91% ethanol. Still results in 70% v/v.
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@Pharma 28 x 91% = 25.48
25.48/40.4grams= 63.07% weight volume(I missed a zero last time). How do you calculate v/v? Also, is the fda looking for w/v or v/v labeling requirements? WHO suggests at least 60% for effectiveness, is that w/v or v/v?
@LincsChemist what alcohol% did you use when using ultrez-21? Any suggestions?
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63% w/w equals 70% v/v. WHO uses v/v and nobody uses w/v any longer (except probably the US cause they also stick to imperial measurements without reason).BTW I don’t calculate due to volume depression but go with conversion tables, a lot faster and easier
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@Pharma where can I find conversion tables? Thanks!
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Ok, I think I got it. But I am having trouble converting my grams to ML ratio for volume. Can anyone show me how to calculate?
Water: 23.4g
Alcohol 91%: 42.7g
Aloe: 1.3g
Glycerin: 1.6g
Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer: .3g
Triethanolamine: .2gTotal Grams: 69.5
I found online that .785g of isopropyl alcohol= 1ml
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