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GRAINY DEODORANT
So I finally made a deodorant that leaves me smelling fresh all day and works! The problem is, it’s grainy. There’s no butter in there but I’m sure some combination of what I used is contributing to that. Any help would be welcomed. Here’s the formulation:
100 cyclomethicone 6% 5.5 cetyl alcohol 20% 20 cetyl esters 5% 5 Zinc Ricco 2% 2 glyceryl stearate 5% 5 GLYCERIN 6% 5.5 LACTIC ACID 6% 5.5 c12-15 10% 10 zinc stearate 1% 0.5 POLYHYDROXYSTEARIC ACID 2% 2 isopropyl myristate 3% 3 lauryl laurate 2% 1.5 alumin chlorohydrate 15% 15 silica dimethyl silicate 1% 1 mag hydroxide 8% 8 oil lock powder 8% 8 preservative 1% 0.5 ess oil 1% 0.5 ethylhexyl glycerin 1% 0.5 99% 99 The lactic acid is added last with the cool down ingredients and the reason for it is to keep the PH of my armpits low when it mixes with any sweat. As soon as all is mixed, it goes into the freezer to solidify. The formula itself is wonderful but it is very grainy.
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22 Replies
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Maybe I’m nuts…but magnesium and lactic acid…are exactly opposite themes. I would pick a program…and stick with it. You can’t just grab every idea from the net…and combine them. Some don’t play well together.
Halfway looks like you tried to build an emulsion, but forgot the water?
What is the point of the preservative? I did not see any water. In this case, the glycerin would be self-preserved.
You have to always memba….when ingredients meet skin/sweat….they show their true colors (in this case… pH).
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Ahhh interesting. Magnesium & Lactic huh? Can u elaborate? I’d love to learn more. I use the magnesium to combat odor & the Lactic for PH. Are you saying that the magnesium will keep the PH low just as tge lactic does? I use the glyceryl stearate because I was duping sure clinical solid deodorant and they use it. Actually most solid deodorants use it and they don’t use water. Finally, would you know why my final product was grainy? Thank you so much.
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niecie2k said:Ahhh interesting. Magnesium & Lactic huh? Can u elaborate? I’d love to learn more. I use the magnesium to combat odor & the Lactic for PH. Are you saying that the magnesium will keep the PH low just as tge lactic does? I use the glyceryl stearate because I was duping sure clinical solid deodorant and they use it. Actually most solid deodorants use it and they don’t use water. Finally, would you know why my final product was grainy? Thank you so much.
No…I am actually saying the EXACT opposite. Have you not researched the pH of Mg(OH)₂? You have infighting among your ingredients….One pushing the pH down…and one trying to push it UP.
When you make a deo…you must create a ‘theme’. Then you match ingredients to your theme. You can’t just grab random ingredients from different concepts and patch them together.
Regarding grainy….feel your ingredients by themselves. Then take you suspect ingredients…and do what is called a ‘knock-out’ experiment. Remove one suspect each time…until you discover the culprit.
I was not aware that MOST deodorants use glyceryl stearate, and still am not.
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I understand what you are saying and thank you for your thorough explanations and time. Yes, I actually have a spreadsheet with all my hundreds of ingredients and their PH is included in the information but I figured that no matter what the PH of all my ingredients combined was, the lactic would bring the final PH down. Anyway, as far as the graininess, I was thinking that something was crystalizing or something was causing crystallization as none of my ingredients by themselves are grainy. I like your theme concept but when one is not a chemist and just does this for hobby and to learn so that perhaps one day I can become a chemist, the matching ingredients to a theme is not so simple when one doesn’t have a more advanced scientific mindset. I will take all of your very thoughtful advice to account and make some more tests. Again, thank you.
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niecie2k said:I understand what you are saying and thank you for your thorough explanations and time. Yes, I actually have a spreadsheet with all my hundreds of ingredients and their PH is included in the information but I figured that no matter what the PH of all my ingredients combined was, the lactic would bring the final PH down.
The whole point of the Mag…is the same as the lactic…except opposite ends of the spectrum. Lactic provides a low pH that the odor causing bacteria do not appreciate. Mag is the same concept….other end…. It creates a VERY HIGH pH, which bacteria do not appreciate. Hehehehe…so you cannot have both your cake and eat it too (both being effective in the same formula). Mag was used simply to replace an even more hostile ingredient…Baking Soda.
If you think much about skin, acid mantel etc…. you will quickly discover you can do things a better way.
BTW…since your formula is anhydrous….how are you measuring your pH…since that number is critical!?
You are playing with scary and unmeasurable pH’s. As you remove the mag…the pH will plummet, to possibly hostile levels.
Good luck on the journey.
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Ahhhh, ok….I actually learned something new and I really appreciate that. That’s what I come here for so thank you! I had no idea that this is why magnesium hydoxide was used. I’ve only heard that it “combats odor”, but nothing as well explained as what you’ve provided. I actually made the deodorant again sans the preservative and the magnesium hydroxide. As far as the glyceryl stearate, I left it in because I want to make sure the glycerin and lactic which are both water soluble, don’t precipitate out of the stick. As far as PH, yes, the lactic on my underarms, hopefully will have the effect I want. I’ve actually had it on all day and I’m still fresh as a daisy with no irritation so I think I’m good.
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niecie2k said:Ahhhh, ok….I actually learned something new and I really appreciate that. That’s what I come here for so thank you! I had no idea that this is why magnesium hydoxide was used. I’ve only heard that it “combats odor”, but nothing as well explained as what you’ve provided. I actually made the deodorant again sans the preservative and the magnesium hydroxide. As far as the glyceryl stearate, I left it in because I want to make sure the glycerin and lactic which are both water soluble, don’t precipitate out of the stick. As far as PH, yes, the lactic on my underarms, hopefully will have the effect I want. I’ve actually had it on all day and I’m still fresh as a daisy with no irritation so I think I’m good.
I use lactic in my deo to lower my pH to a target of 4.3. But this only take ‘drops’, not percentages…
I make an emulsified deo, as my pits are very sensitive. Think of an elegant face cream….but for the pits. Yes, removing the conflicting ingredients …. should make it perform better than it ever has before.
BTW… pH is written…. small ‘p’ and BIG ‘H’. It make it hard for me to read your comments.
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Got it. You’re terrific!
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Hello, I observed from your formulation that, you used 19 different ingredients. is there a reason for that? few of these are playing the same role, so if you could help us understand the use of each ingredient. it will help us find the reason for the grainy end product.
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Sure
cyclomethicone6%5-GLIDE/WHITECAST AVOIDANCE WITH EVAPORATION
cetyl alcohol20%-HARDNESS
cetyl esters5%-THICKENING AND HARDNESS WITH EMOLLIENCY
Zinc Ricco-ODOR CONTROL
glyceryl stearate-EMUSLFICATION OF THE GLYCERIN & LACTIC
GLYCERIN6%-KEEPS STICK FROM GETTING DRY
LACTIC ACID6%-PROVIDES LOW PH WHEN COMBINED WITH SWEAT
c12-1510%-GLIDE & MOISTURE
zinc stearate1%-ADHESION TO SKIN
POLYHYDROXYSTEARIC ACID2%-FILM FORMER
isopropyl myristate3%-GLIDE/WHITECAST AVOIDANCE
lauryl laurate2%-DEPOSITION OF PRODUCT TO SKIN
alumin chlorohydrate15%-SWEAT AVOIDANCE
silica dimethyl silicate1%-KEEPS SKIN DRY
Mag hydroxide8%-I TOOK THIS OUT OF THE 2ND TEST AFTER Graillotion‘S COMMENTS AND IT WORKED FINE
oil lock powder8%-DRYNESS
preservative1%-I TOOK THIS OUT OF THE 2ND TEST AFTER Graillotion‘S COMMENTS AND IT WORKED FINE
ess oil1%-FRAGRANCE
ethylhexyl glycerin1%-EMOLLIENCY, SPREAD, DEODORANT ACTIVE -
Are you also saying….(I was not quite clear….) does ‘worked fine’ also mean…it is no longer grainy?
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Yes, the 2nd test was not grainy
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But I’d still appreciate any comments you have ;0)
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niecie2k said:Yes, the 2nd test was not grainy
Good….got a smoother product…and rid of a horrific ingredient (for skin at those levels).
I don’t usually pass off marketing propaganda as science….but here is a decent explanation on the concept. Each time you read the word BS… you can sub in the word mag…. Mag is just slightly less hostile than the BS.
Why Deodorant with Baking Soda is Bad for You | Lume Deodorant
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Looking for advice on formulating a natural deodorant — Cosmetic Science Talk (chemistscorner.com) - Niece2K = Maybe look at this discussion on formulation a ‘Natural” deodorant - I too had no idea months ago and after finally understanding the pH importance of controlling odor. The original ones (stick/creams) I made were also grainy using Magnesium Hydroxide. So I changed my plan of attack totally (after talking to people on this forum including Graillotion) and now my ‘pits’ are happy and no odor. I made a spray (not aerosol) in a spray pump bottle and I love it. I generally use in morning and that keeps me going most days (plus I live in a humid climate). It would be nice if people shared their formula’s here but that only seems to happen when people have issues with their formula’s - I dont think I have ever seen a formulation that works - ha! Yes I understand that many do this for a living and want to charge you for their time and work
- anyway I like to work these things out as I only make products for myself and family - but it would still be great if people shared more for home formulators. Cheers -
It is my understanding that this is a site for ANYONE who formulates and needs any type of help. I know Perry intends that they can come freely to discuss. I notice that there are many who behave “holier than thou” on this site-people who have degrees in the subject and feel that it’s ok to poo poo on those of us who don’t have that level of education. I see that often and it makes me sad because I do not believe that this is what Perry intended with this forum. I believe he wants all - kitchen formulators like myself and accomplished chemists alike, to feel free to come here and discuss any aspect of formulation and chemistry. I got some really great help on this one and actually solved my problem but that’s not the norm. I’ve seen some extremely condescending behavior multiple times. Those who want to be paid for their advice should go somewhere else as that is not the purpose of this forum.
Thank you so much for your advice and help! I really appreciate it. :0)
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PS - thank you so much Graillotion, Raychemist and Squinny for your help, advice, contribution and time. It is just so wonderful that you all took of your time and your kindness to help me out and I learned something too! Can’t beat it! Have a “fantastical” week!!!!
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soo youre handling aluminum salts and formulating antiperspirants in your kitchen??? I find it a little concerning tbh. Be careful!
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Been doing it for years and years. So far so good and this last formula was perfection!
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@niecie2k Be careful about the amount of Lactic acid. Now that you removed Mg hydroxide (it neutralized most of the Lactic acid), you have more Lactic acid available that could be sensitizing to skin under repetitive use. Not saying that you should put Mg hydroxide back, but to reduce Lactic acid, so you have the minimum required to get the desired pH.
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Perfect. Will lower to 2%
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This is an antiperspirant as well as a deodorant. In US, it is a drug.
What is “oil lock powder”?
Doubt you need EHG.
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