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Geogard ECT and heat
I’m a formulation hobbyist, not a professional yet, so here’s a question posed purely out of curiosity.
What happens if you heat a formulation containing 1% geogard ect to 70 or 80 Celsius? Is there any chance of toxicity developing? Does the preservative become totally ineffective? And should I just throw out the accidentally heated batch?
Here’s what happened: I was making aloe gel from my plant, and forgot to heat the gel before mixing in the geogard ect and sepimax zen. So I heated the gel with sepimax zen and geogard ect in a water bath to 75 Celsius, let it cool, and added 1 % vitamin e oil as well as 0.4 % iscaguard PEG. Is this a safe product to use now?
Thanks for helping a newbie!
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16 Replies
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Yes, I would throw out anything with a Geogard preservative! How did you expect to cover Gram negative bacteria?
The poor job that Geogard preservatives do on the other aspects of the formula, are very pH dependent, and you did not even mention pH??? Above a pH of 5.5, the product isn’t doing much on the Gram +, and YMF.
Just because other beginners use poor preservation, does not mean you should follow the herd. Consider the health of your customers, and family.
This link… might be a good place to start, not written by beginners.
Preservative Reviews - (makingskincare.com)
makingskincare.com
PreservativesAll you need to know!Learn how to preserve effectivelyCommon strategies chemists use to pass preservative testsPreservative free?True or false? Previous Next Free, online skincare formulation course from Chemists Corner, Swiftcraftymonkey and Making Skincare.As a first step to making your own … Continue reading
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You should understand that very clever language is used to manipulate those without the science backgrounds…. everything down to the worst of the worst….will use meaningless terms like ‘broad spectrum’. I cannot think of two more meaningless words in cosmetics!
I have seen the method that beginners use to select their preservation systems…. They will …. wait for it …. survey other beginners on what to use. Do you see any concerns with that?
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Thanks!
Well, considering that I did add 0.4 percent iscaguard PEG and 2% tocopherol with the geogard ect(benzyl alcohol, sorbic acid and salicylic acid), and my ph is 5.1-5.4 (using precision test strips), should I still be scared? The batch will be used up in a month or two anyway.
The Geogard line seems to have a wide variety of products, with differing active ingredients. Are they all useless, or would geogard ultra(Na benzoate gluconolactone) work better?
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The entire line is weak on Gram - , hence why it is mostly relegated to beginners. Granted you can use them as a starting point… and build off of them….but why bother, when it is simply easier to preserve correctly right out of the gate? The link I sent…addressed the additional version you inquired about.
It actually brings a new set of problems….and that is pH drift with the Gluconolactone.
By the way Vit E has no effect on preservation. It is an antioxidant, not a preservative. And worse yet, at the rate you used it….it is a pro-oxidant vs the desired outcome. In cosmetics….it is quite often the case….that more is worse. The E rate that will be sufficient will be .05% - to .2% if you think your product is old and low efficacy (the darker it is…the more oxidized it is).
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This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by Graillotion.
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Ahh…………..
Yes the iscaguard PEG will help. We don’t work in brand names….just INCI.
So I finally looked it up….and it contains phenoxy….which will get the gram -.
Good luck. (Going forward…..tell us what is in things…. we don’t memorize brand names). 😉
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Back to your original question….let’s call in the expert, Dr Geis…. @PhilGeis Do you see any concerns with heating a preservative containing: Benzyl Alcohol (and) Salicylic Acid (and) Glycerin (and) Sorbic Acid
To a temp of 75C?
PS: Time to buy a pH meter. 😉
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This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by Graillotion.
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This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by
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Thank you for all the help! Actually I have been trying to register here for a few months now, but the process wouldn’t work until now…hence all the misinformation that’s got into my head.
I’ll be looking into all the links from makingskincare, thanks again!
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This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by
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Think the compounds are stable at temp - don’t know that extends to this formula.
One can do what they want for personal use - in any other context, this batch should be scrapped.
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Thanks for the input. It would really help if you could let me know if I can use the below preservative blend in a 75Celsius heated aqueous gel:
Phenoxyethanol 0.5%
Benzyl alcohol 0.5%
Salicylic acid 0.1%
Sorbic acid 0.1%
Propylene glycol 0.05%
Tocopherol 0.1%
Glycerin 0.15%
Total preservative concentration becomes 1.5 %, and I use Sepimax zen 0.5 to 1% as a solubilizer.
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If this is product of error in making, dump it. Not sure what you’d do with/learn from the stuff.
To the question:
PG, tocopherol and glycerol are not preservatives.
Sorbate and Benzyl alcohol are chemically and PE physically at risk. Magnitude begs pH, package and anticipated use but if an effect, prob only significant in longer term stability.
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I have in my stock two preservatives(brand names iscaguard PEG and geogard ect), which when mixed 50/50 would yield the mixture listed in the previous reply.<div>So I listed everything, including the non-preservative components, to ask if it could be added to the heated phases in future.</div>
I guess preservatives and heating is a complex issue for another discussion. I already tossed out the messed-up aloe batch, so rest assured on that account!
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Thanks, I see. Suggest you let your challenge testing be guide. In that, don’t settle for the weak standards offered in methods - you should have no recovery of bacteria/candida at day 7 and some effective reduction in mold.
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Some have reported efficacy with benzoate/benzyl alcohol and with benzoate/sorbic combinations. But as graillotion commented, I do think you’ll find a Gram neg gap that you’ll need to address.
You might tell us pH, packaged and expecgted use.
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PH is always 5.5 or below, packaged in bottles and expected to be used in 3 to 6 months
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If you want to be safe about heat and preservatives, you just need to follow supplier’s recommendarions (like Arxada or Clariant). As a rule of thumb, liquid aromatic ones are the ones that are more sensitive to evaporation at high T.
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Sorry for the long gap in replies, and thanks for your help.
I’ve decided not to heat any preservatives at all! If I do have to use preserved things like aloe juice, hydrosols, stock solutions etc, I’ll add them in the cool down phase. And for preservative, I’m using 0.5percent benzyl alcohol with 0.5 percent Phenoxyethanol.
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