-
Formulating a cleansing oil for the very first time
-
Dear Graillotion,
Thank you so much for your efforts and continued support.
1-you said cosmetics are all about marketing.I agree 100% but if the product is good, then it starts to market for itself,people talk about it and encourage others to buy it.Fir the first time when you sell a product i understand that marketing helps but will it help the second time if the first time people were not satisfied with the product? Even Pattsi said that some influencers put out lousy cosmetics with captivating stories yet the product just failed and others put out stupendous products with no marketing and succeed. How would you please explain this phenomenon?2-so the story based on what you said is about the star ingredient in that cleansing oil for instance right? But when i go to competing brands and check for instance their cleansing oil. Can you please have a look at the DHCCARE website, its a Japanese brand and their cleansing oil is famous.
https://www.dhccare.com/deep-cleansing-oil.html I don’t see any story here about the oil, could you please tell me where it is?
3-I created the product first and now i will have to think about the story.So since i have 3 products in my line( cleansing oil, spf, face scrub) this means i have to come with 3 stories right? and also mention why the target will feel better in their life after purchasing these 3 products.
4-Also id like to show you the emulsifiers that i have available, could you tell me if these are safe and non irritating?
stearic acid
Ceteareth-25
glyceryl Stearate
CETEARETH-20
Cetearyl Alcohol
Cetearyl Glucoside
Lauryl Glucoside
Polyglyceryl-2
Dipolyhydroxystearate(peg 30)
Polyglyceryl-3 Dicitrate/Stearate
Sodium Stearoyl Glutamat
Polyglyceryl-3 Diisostearate)
5-Are cleansing oils W/O or O/W emulsions?From my understanding they are W/O.This is a lot of knowledge here and im grateful to all of you to contribute to it here:)
-
A question i forgot to you:)
Are cleansing oils better suited at removing eye makeup as opposed to cleansing balm.I read about these two a lot and this is why i wanted to start with a cleansing oil because i read in many articles that they are better at dissolving mascara, eyeshadow and lipstick than balms.
What is the view of the experts here on this point?I was thinking to myself : ummm If both cleansing oils and balms exist its for a reason , what is it that oils do that balms don’t and vice versa? Otherwise why would formulators come up with a cleansing oil and cleansing balms.Both are for a specific target who is looking for something. If i create a for instance a sunscreen that is tinted and a sunscreen that is invisible its because one creates the effect of wearing makeup and the other doesn’t and i created the tinted one because i saw that people don’t want to wear makeup but instead want to wear spf and protect themselves all the while looking like they are wearing foundation. so same for cleansing oils and balms, why did chemists came up with cleansing oils, i’m sure they didn’t mix ingredients and Hallelujah they had an oil, they knew what they were doing and knew they wanted a cleansing oil.
Are cleansing balm more fastidious t use than cleansing oils? Are cleansing oils more messy than balms? Are cleansing oils better at removing mascara because lets face it, how am i going to apply that tiny scoop of balm in my eyelashes whereas with the oil i can just pump a tiny bit and put it on my lashes?
Also balm its not very hygienic cus lets scoop out a dime-sized dollop for the cheeks and then for the forehead and then chin and then eyes, so i assume i will have to scoop out maybe twice and fingers wont be clean the second time i do it.Just trying to figure out out loud with you all how to advertise my cleansing oil? This cleansing oil will be OURS not just mine
<3 Thank you all for the love and support here
-
Ghita37 said:Dear Graillotion,2-so the story based on what you said is about the star ingredient in that cleansing oil for instance right? But when i go to competing brands and check for instance their cleansing oil. Can you please have a look at the DHCCARE website, its a Japanese brand and their cleansing oil is famous.
https://www.dhccare.com/deep-cleansing-oil.html I don’t see any story here about the oil, could you please tell me where it is?
Their story…is under the tab ‘Our Story’.
There are even several ‘sub-stories’ in the story. Thank you for picking such a perfect example. This is exactly what I/we mean by telling a story with your product.
Our Story – The #1 Direct Skincare Brand from Japan | DHC (dhccare.com)
-
DHC actually has two stories. There is the brand story under the tab “Our Story” and also a product story specific to their cleansing oil product on the product page.
It sounds as though you are looking in your cupboard and trying to determine what ingredients you have in stock that you can throw into a cleansing oil product. That is a recipe for failure since you are focusing on what ingredients you have in stock as opposed to what ingredients you can incorporate into a cleansing oil that would be competitive in the marketplace and then purchasing the ingredients you don’t have in stock.
I would suggest you try to make a version of the DHC cleansing oil, but using different oils. Using products highly regarded by consumers and reviewers as development models is a good way to learn how to formulate superior products.
-
Thanks @Graillotion and @MarkBroussard I learn so much from you guys about products I have never seen before. The Cleansing Oil has only a few ingredients from DHC which I love and will have a play with this one next year for myself. The ingredients listed for the one I like the look of is : Deep Cleansing Oil: olea europaea (olive) fruit oil, caprylic/capric
triglyceride, sorbeth-30 tetraoleate, pentylene glycol,
phenoxyethanol, tocopherol, stearyl glycyrrhetinate,
rosmarinus officinalis (rosemary) leaf oil.MySkinRecipes has sorbeth-30 tetraoleate at a reasonable price - do you guys reckon (and I am only making for myself not to sell) it is worth getting stearyl glycyrrhetinate as this is quite expensive and usage from what I see at 0.5 to 1.5% - does it really do anything if just in a cleansing Oil or could i skip that? Alos MSK recommends using Sorbeth-30-t with a non-polar oil (sorry where do I find out what polarity an oil is?) - thanks if you guys have time to answer and sorry if I have hijacked the thread!
@G@Ghita37 - MSR has a basic Cleansing Oil formula using sorbeth-30 tetraoleate so maybe look at that as a start too? Not sure where you are based but you can check out site here if you wish Oilsify 30 (Sorbeth-30 Tetraoleate) (myskinrecipes.com) - Cheers
-
Stearyl Glycyrrhetinate … nope. It will just get washed off when you rinse off the cleansing oil with water. Polarity of oils … just Google and you’ll find some information.
-
@MarkBroussard - Many thanks Mark that’s what I thought for Stearyl Glycyrrhetinate so thanks for confirming that for me, So all Oils are non-polar or did I misinterpret what I read? Cheers and thanks again
I assume the Oils in the Deep Cleansing oil are non-polar so would be ok to use Olive Oil and MCT which I have both (mind you I also have a number of other oils) - Jojoba, Sunflower, safflower, grapeseed, Camelina, Hazelnut, Macadamia, Avocado …. -
The polarity of oils is variable depending on the chemical structure of the oil. Alkanes … straight-chain carbon molecules that are fully-saturated are non-polar. Fatty alcohols would be polar. Generally, if its a plant-derived carrier oil, it will be relatively non-polar. Yes, Olive Oil would be relatively non-polar, MCT would be relatively polar. Oils are not homogeneously comprised of a single molecule, but a mixture of different molecules.
-
Hello @MarkBroussard, thank heaps for your help.You always guide me and take me to the right path.So when you suggest that i develop an oil that is similar to DHC do you mean that this one is considered one of the best on the market worldwide, is this the reason why you want me to make one like it?
When you say: Using products highly regarded by consumers and reviewers as development models is a good way to learn how to formulate superior products.
So here you mean by doing like the best ones in the market this will teach me how to develop product of high standards?Thank you once again
-
Thank you so much @Graillotion for your help and support here.
-
HI @Squinny, thank you for your contribution as well. Could you please tell me why i should have a look at the MSR cleansing oil, i might have been confused dear
I was following your thread on oil polarity, so how is this important for us formulators in delivering results? if
Also can you guys please tell me if these emulsifiers are safe, non irritating and whether i should use any one them? Also is it possible to mix 2 emulsifier
stearic acid
Ceteareth-25
glyceryl Stearate
CETEARETH-20
Cetearyl Alcohol
Cetearyl Glucoside
Lauryl Glucoside
Polyglyceryl-2
Dipolyhydroxystearate(peg 30)
Polyglyceryl-3 Dicitrate/Stearate
Sodium Stearoyl Glutamat
Polyglyceryl-3 Diisostearate)Is sorbeth 30 a good choice as an eye makeup removing emulsifier?
Im based in Morocco and ordering ingredients takes a lot of time.Is someone here based in Europe for instance to show me good suppliers of cosmetic ingredients( fruits enzymes, emulsifiers, oils( cucumber, coffee).
Thank you all for your never-ending help and guidance.It means a lot to me and i feel less lonely in the process of developing my products.
-
Oh, I see … you are located in Morcocco. In that case you should be able to easily access Argan Oil, Olive Oil … can you get Caprylic/Capric Triglycerides?
So, your formula could be Olive Oil (42%), Caprylic/Capric Triglycerides (40%), Argan Oil (2%), Tocopherol (0.2%), Sorbeth 30 Tetraoleate (15%), Phenoxyethanol (0.8%) to give you a Moroccan/Mediterranean twist on the theme.
Add all the component ingredients together while stirring@300RPM to make uniform. Homogenize@2,500RPM for 2 minutes.
-
MarkBroussard said:@Squinny:
The polarity of oils is variable depending on the chemical structure of the oil. Alkanes … straight-chain carbon molecules that are fully-saturated are non-polar. Fatty alcohols would be polar. Generally, if its a plant-derived carrier oil, it will be relatively non-polar. Yes, Olive Oil would be relatively non-polar, MCT would be relatively polar. Oils are not homogeneously comprised of a single molecule, but a mixture of different molecules.
Thanks Mark for that info appreciate it.
-
@Ghita37 - I just suggested looking at the MSR Site as it may help you as it appears you don’t know much about ingredients you want to use (not saying that I know a lot either, but I have been formulating for few years now and have learnt a lot from people on this site). Anyway, looks like Mark has given you a formula to start with (which is great as I’ll have a play with that too for myself so thanks @MarkBroussard ).
I don’t sell products, so my interest is purely personal and is a hobby. You may find that MSR ships to Morocco (I have no idea if they do as I am in Australia and find them cheaper to buy products from including shipping than I do to buy products in my own country) so may work out the same for you and they have a lot of ingredients I can’t buy in Australia anyway. Good luck - I suggest doing some of your own research though as you may find a good supplier all by yourself for you and your needs. If you havent started making products before I do suggest buying small quantities to begin with, so you aren’t lumbered with lots of ingredients, you don’t like or won’t use again. It’s easy to get carried away to begin with (I know because that was me hee hee) -
Hello @MarkBroussard, thank you so much for your reply dear
Yes i have Caprylic/Capric Triglycerides
I love your formula here, it looks so simple and to the point. So no need to aadd things such as vitamin c and hyaluronic acid or green tea extract? Also i have one tiny concern here which is olive oil, wont it clog pores of acne prone skins or oily skins?After doing a bit of research on cleansing oils( DHC, bobbi brown, josie maran, Boscia, ) i saw that for the dhc this is what people said: this caused breakouts in my skin, someone else said i had 3 zits, another one said pimples, another girl said it leaves my skin oily( so i don’t know if olive oil is the culprit here, i checked it has a comedo rating of 2 , someone else said skin started to purge.The reason why I’m mentioning the DHC oil is because you said i should put olive oil, and I’m worried people complain about it and say it caused purging or pimples or zits and this hurts my new brand. .When i checked the ingredients deck of DHC oil, here is what i found:
Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Sorbeth-30 Tetraoleate, Pentylene Glycol, Phenoxyethanol, Tocopherol, Stearyl Glycyrrhetinate, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf OilAlso i dont have Sorbeth 30 Tetraoleate. Can i mix polysorbate 80 and Polyglyceryl-3 Diisostearate? ( the latter being very good for senstive skins, but i dont know if it cleanses well,)
@squinny, thanks a lot for showing me MSR, but they are located in Bangkok and it might take a lot of time to receive the ingredients.Thank you so much to all of you here:)
-
Mark if i want to add cucumber oil or coffee oil to the formula you gave me, would that be good? Cucumber oil because its non greasy and it can be good for acne, for dry skin, and is a quick drying oil. Whence me thiking about adding it.
Coffee oil because coffee is antioxidant, promote better blood flow,
Im trying to use the vertue of nature as much as possible.What do you say?
-
Id like to share with you my thoughts on the target audience and would like you to guide me here as all of you have more experience than i do
@Pattsi told me to work on the following information:
-what states will you be selling mainly:
- how big is 30-40 female population in that area
- average incomes, how much they’re willing to pay for your cleansing oil.
- competitors
- alternative products
- which ingredient is a no no, which ingredient will be your main star in case you will put out other products.
- …
- …
- …
- …
These details may help you narrow down your choice of ingredients in your formula
My answers:
States : Ill start with Morocco and then expand to the USA .
age: i said 25/40 yrs old.Why did choose this age bracket? I told myself at this age people have money to spend and live comfortably.I wanted to target GEN Z ( ppl born between 1997-2010) but i dont know if they have a huge purchasing power. Then i told myself ok lets stick to the 25-40 yrs old ( which maybe is too vague )So why 25? She has a bachelor’s degree at least, she has been working or hustling in her own business for the past 6 years so she must have a source of monthly income.She works at an office whence the need to put makeup on and the need to remove it the night before she sleeps.
-How big is the 25/40 yrs old in my area ( morocco) ( the usa will be for after but you can advice please, id highly appreciate that) .So there are 4 160 000 women in Morocco aged between 25-40 yrs old. I guess i should start with my city.Im from Rabat, the capital city of morocco.Here is the data i found.
In Rabat there are in total 882 079 women .
In Rabat there are 195 000 women aged between 30-44 yrs old.-average income: 400 euros
-Net monthly income for people working within a govt agency: 800 euros/month in Morocco
-in the private sector, the minimum income salary per month is at 450 euros/months. Then you have higher salaries for people with managerial positions. For instance a product manager( we are talking private sector) can have 1250 euros/month at the beginning of his career an 3000 euros /month at the end of his career.-people with managerial positions can score even a 4000 euros a month.
-the girl im targeting is single. why single? well single women tend to wear makeup maybe more than married women. she lives with her family, so whatever money she earns is for her and she belongs to the middle/uppwer crust of society.-alternative products: there are cleansing oils in phamarcies here from french brands. Let me share with you two with their inci list. There are also micellar water, there are also milk cleansers, gel cleansers etc. Since im targeting the makeup user, so an oil based makeup in de riguer followed by a water based cleanser.
Uriage cleansing oil :
AQUA (WATER, EAU) ● GLYCERIN ● SODIUM LAURETH SULFATE ● CAPRYLYL/CAPRYL GLUCOSIDE ● PEG-7 GLYCERYL COCOATE ● SODIUM COCOYL GLUTAMATE ● SODIUM COCOAMPHOACETATE ● PARFUM (FRAGRANCE) ● LAURETH-2 ● PEG/PPG-120/10 TRIMETHYLOLPROPANE TRIOLEATE ● CITRIC ACID ● SODIUM BENZOATE ● SODIUM CHLORIDE ● POLYQUATERNIUM-10 ● COCO-GLUCOSIDE ● GLYCERYL OLEATE ● SODIUM ACETATE
Avene cleansing oil:
AVENE THERMAL SPRING WATER (AVENE AQUA). GLYCERIN. WATER (AQUA). HYDROGENATED STARCH HYDROLYSATE. DISODIUM COCOAMPHODIACETATE. DECYL GLUCOSIDE. POLYSORBATE 20. SODIUM CHLORIDE. CETEARETH-60 MYRISTYL GLYCOL. AQUAPHILUS DOLOMIAE EXTRACT. ARGININE. CITRIC ACID. COCO-GLUCOSIDE. EVENING PRIMROSE OIL/PALM OIL AMINOPROPANEDIOL ESTERS. GLYCERYL OLEATE. GLYCINE. HYDROGENATED VEGETABLE GLYCERIDES CITRATE. SIMMONDSIA CHINENSIS (JOJOBA) SEED OIL (SIMMONDSIA CHINENSIS SEED OIL). SODIUM BENZOATE. TOCOPHEROL. TRISODIUM ETHYLENEDIAMINE DISUCCINATE
Laroche posay:
Aqua/water, glycerin, sucrose, sodium laureth sulfate, coco-betaine, sodium chloride, citric acid, niacinamide, parfum/fragrance, PEG-75 shea butter, glycerides, polysorbate 20, PPG-5-ceteth-20, sodium benzoate, sodium hydroxide, Vitreoscilla fermen shower cleansing oil:Bioderma cleansing oil:
Aqua/Water/Eau, Glycerin, PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate, Sodium Cocoamphoacetate, Lauryl Glucoside, Coco-Glucoside, Glyceryl Oleate, Citric Acid, PEG-90 Glyceryl Isostearate, Fragrance (Parfum), Mannitol, Polysorbate 20, Xylitol, Laureth-2, Rhamnose, Niacinamide, Fructooligosaccharides, Tocopherol, Hydrogenated Palm Glycerides Citrate, Lecithin, Ascorbyl PalmitateCan you guys please tell me if these oils ingredients are good because im studying all the oils here and want to do something different, something designed for sensitive skins and that will remove makeup and debris.
Thank you
-
Olive Oil: I recommended that because you are in an Olive Oil producing region and it is easy to source. I personally find Olive Oil to be quite heavy. You can use any carrier oils you want … whatever you can more easily access. If there is another carrier oil that is abundant to Morocco besides Argan?
Also, you could add a touch of Moroccan Blue Chamomile Oil or Moroccan Neroli Oil … this would utilize some unique ingredients from Morocco and give you some market differentiation.
Yes, Cucumber Oil and Coffee Oil in small quantities would work.
-
Hey Mark, i appreciate your reply on this point.
Argan oil is available, i also have rose oil, i have macadamia, jojoba, sunflower, almond, sesame, prickly pear seed oil, apricot, and others. -
Ok, then you have lots of options: Perhaps Macadamia, Argan, CCT, Rose Oil, Sorbeth 20 Tetraoleate, Vitamin C would be a nice combination.
See what you can do to acquire Sorbeth 20 Tetraoleate.
-
Thanks a lot dear Mark
-
Sorry, Vitamin E, not Vitamin C
-
Dear friends.
1-I was asking myself something an thought about sharing this with you?
Do you recommend adding AHA ( even the most gentle one) in the cleansing oil so its acting as a cleanser and an exfoliant? If yes i guess it cant be used near the eyes areas or on the lips?2- What should i do so my cleansing oil doesn’t leave a film on the skin once its rinsed off and what should i do to prevent it from causing the vision to become foggy/blurry? What ingredients are responsible for these sensations?
3-the main difference between a cleansing oil and a oil is the emulsifier.If i cleanse my makeup with any carrier oil it will remove it but the cleansing oil thanks to emulsifier will remove debris and excess dirt do you agree? so we can say that within the cleansing oil there are two steps: first step is to use the oil on the face to dissolve everything there and then the second step is rinsing everything thats left by adding water to the oil, so you clean everything altogether.So in that case no need to use a water-based cleanser cus when water is added its like using a water-based cleanser, is this correct?
I appreciate everything from you and im grateful
-
@MarkBroussard, thank you for the rectification.Though would vitamin c be a good addition?
Thanks Mark
-
It looks like you have your demographics down. Did you talk to or survey them to get a gauge of the products they will use? Getting to know more will help with getting to know their routine, types of product preference, budget, feedback on products used, things to note for improvements vs competitors’, etc.
As a marketing person, currently my department deals with cosmetics / skincare as one of the special projects in my department, so when reviewing brands and products, i’m mainly the one to do it.
In terms of evaluation, normally my preference is to look at potential product performance. Brands already have they vision / philosophy down, so i don’t need to over review that as long as it fits our general criteria. For product performance, ingredients list review and sample tests will be conducted with our staff in our office. I’ll collect feedback regarding all of the aspects of the products, including the price, performance (short & long term), smell, packaging, and other feedback they would like to give including the products that used when testing with the product.
So no need to aadd things such as vitamin c and hyaluronic acid or green tea extract? Also i have one tiny concern here which is olive oil, wont it clog pores of acne prone skins or oily skins?One thing to note would be the budget as it relates to the cost of the product. It affects the potential margin. You can use it to work backwards towards the maximum cost which will affect the choice of materials, unless you are working towards something of a luxury price point, then the cost can increase as long as your marketing justifies.
For that additives, you can choose to add them later after you decide on the main structural ingredients. Mark has already given you the recommendation of the basic structure, so you can work on that and add in the ingredients for marketing. As a cleansing oil is a rinse off product, i won’t recommend to add too much ingredients that are usually beneficial in leave on formulations as it’s a waste and it increases cost. You can look for those that have some effect for rinse off products if any.
Comedogenicity varies from person to person. The only way to know is to try it out so there no way to predict.
thanks a lot for showing me MSR, but they are located in Bangkok and it might take a lot of time to receive the ingredients.MSR uses DHL, so it doesn’t take that long.
Do you recommend adding AHA ( even the most gentle one) in the cleansing oil so its acting as a cleanser and an exfoliant? If yes i guess it cant be used near the eyes areas or on the lips?Will recommend leaving the exfoliation function to another product.
What should i do so my cleansing oil doesn’t leave a film on the skin once its rinsed off and what should i do to prevent it from causing the vision to become foggy/blurry? What ingredients are responsible for these sensations?I’m assuming is the choice of the oil. One of the brand we distributes uses mineral oil for the cleansing balm, so it leaves a film on the skin. I’m fine with it since i have drier skin, but my colleague finds it slightly too oily for preference.
So in that case no need to use a water-based cleanser cus when water is added its like using a water-based cleanser, is this correct?It’s up to the users’ choice, however if they find that the cleansing oil still leaves a film on the skin, they can still chose to use another cleanser. Most people use a water based cleanser on most days anyway, some people use the cleansing oil only as required.
Log in to reply.