• Hair

  Emulsifying Wax NF v Emulsifying Wax BP

  Posted by Spinr on July 22, 2018 at 3:23 pm

  Hi all

  I have been making hair pomade/clay pomade products for over a year now and have been using Emulsifying Wax BP (Cetearyl alcohol (and) Sodium Lauryl Sulphate) however for commercial selling I wish to change to Ewax NF (Cetearyl Alcohol and Polysorbate 60).

  When I formulated products with Ewax BP they were brilliant, nice feel, slightly gummy texture and beautiful smooth consistency.
  I thought it would be relatively simple to change over to the Ewax NF but after making the same formulas they are coming out very light in texture and have a slight powdery crumbly appearance.
  Do I need to add more Ewax NF as it is not as strong as the Ewax BP, I currently use 8% of Ewax in the formulas?
  Or do I need to add Ceteareth-20 as a second emulsifying with the NF?
  Ewax BP is great on it’s own.

  Also, obviously I look at other companies ingredients and wanted to know the point of Peg 40 HCO in these formulas as I don’t use it, but maybe being naive if it makes the product better then any info on this would be helpful.

  Any comments appreciated.

  Thanks

  Spinr replied 7 years, 3 months ago 4 Members · 7 Replies
• 7 Replies

• 

  DAS

  Member

  July 24, 2018 at 5:21 pm

  You are changing anionic for nonionic, of course you will get a different result. Most likely you have to rethink your entire formula, you are changing the charge, it’s not a small change.

  Why would you like to replace it?. If it ain’t broke…

• 

  Spinr

  Member

  July 24, 2018 at 9:23 pm

  Hi Das

  Thanks for the reply.
  I want to change as Sodium Lauryl Sulphate has so much scare mongering on social media that it would no doubt affect sales.

  I was using 8% Ewax BP and tried the formula below with 8% Ewax NF but it comes out more with a sorbet appearance.
  I have tried a higher percentage of Ewax NF at 10.6% as this is 25% of the oil ratio but still not right. I have also tried adding a low HLB emulsifier (Polyglyceryl-4 Oleate) to experiment with to try and balance it out but still not right.
  I still don’t understand why HCO peg 40 is used in the same formula with Ewax NF either, especially when it has a HLB number of 15 basically the same as HCO peg 40?
  Do I just need to use one emulsifier such as Ewax NF and reformulate or also incorporate cetereath 20? 

  Obviously I am not a chemist but have a passion for this, being honest I have briefed 3 chemists already over the last year to make these unothordox pomades, waited ages for the samples and find they cannot do it, their samples are worse than mine so it is not easy and I think these guys who make these products and get them to market deserve more recognition as I feel chemists get annoyed as they are more natural based and chemists like to use synthetics.

  These are the ingredients.
  

  Aqua

  Beeswax

  Stearic acid

  Mango Butter

  Cetearyl Alcohol and Polysorbate 60

  Shea butter

  Castor Seed Oil
  Hydrogenated Castor Oil
  Carnauba) Wax

  Candelilla wax

  Sunflower oil

  Grapeseed oil

  Argan Oil

  Vegetable glycerin

  Vitamin E

  Phenoxyethanol and Ethylhexylglycerin

  Essential oil blend

• 

  belassi

  Member

  July 25, 2018 at 1:27 am

  You could try cetearyl alcohol and glycerol stearate, that’s a very effective emulsifier. 

• 

  DAS

  Member

  July 25, 2018 at 2:05 am

  I don’t think it will make much difference if you add ceteareth, it is also nonionic. You could try a diferent ewax like this one.

• 

  Spinr

  Member

  July 27, 2018 at 9:38 am

  Thanks for the replies guys, appreciated.

  Okay, I want to go down the nonionic route.
  I have found the HLB numbers separately for the oils and waxes etc and calculated their percentage in the formula from a total oil phase of 56%

  The final HLB required is 10.71

  However, based on a simple rule of thumb at 25% of the oil phase the HLB would be 14

  So a big difference, I should go by the proper calculation correct?

  So with Ewax NF having both Cetearyl Alcohol and Polysorbate 60 with HLB numbers of 15.5 and 14.9 respectively do I need to add a low emulsifier to balance it out such as glyceryl stearate (nonionic), (HLB number 3. as Belassi suggests, and if so at what percentage? 
  Do I add this low HLB emulsifier in to the suggested HLB requirement total of 10.71 or is it an additional to increase the ratio of emulsifier?

  Or should EWAX NF simply do the job without any additional emulsifier?
  Many formulas on the market use Ewax NF and Peg 40 HCO but there both high HLB so why is it best to use a high and low HLB?

  Sorry if it sounds like waffle but need to know please.

  Thanks

• 

  chemicalmatt

  Member

  July 27, 2018 at 3:18 pm

  Spinr: drop the stearic acid if possible (unless you wish to add an alkali to saponify it), and sub with glyceryl stearate; glyceryl oleate might work even better, given the polar oil content. Not knowing the level of emulsifying wax, I couldn’t say how much, but 2.0% w/w would be a nice start. That is  large oil phase you have there. Small amount of Steareth-2 (0.50%) would help stabilize also.

• 

  Spinr

  Member

  July 28, 2018 at 1:12 pm

  Hi chemicialmatt

  Thanks for the reply, I have removed stearic acid and replaced with glyceryl stearate/glyceryl stearate citrate (Lamecreme) as a test for now until a delivery of Glyceryl Oleate arrives.
  I have done HLB calculations on a new oil phase of 47.5 but still find a higher amount of emulsifier is needed to get it right, so on test I used 10.8 Ewax nf and 4.7 lamacreme and it came out good, however a bit sorbet looking still.
  I find Ewax nf a lot more harder to use than Ewax BP.

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