Does BTMS-50 need a co-emulsifier?

Formulating

Does BTMS-50 need a co-emulsifier?

Posted by GeorgeBenson on December 27, 2021 at 7:48 am

I have a rinse-off conditioner formula I LOVE that is stable at 40 degrees up until about 7 weeks, at which point some separation is starting to occur. Nothing drastic yet, but there seems to be almost an inch of a yellowish layer forming on top. RT sample still looking great.

I used BTMS-50 at 10%, wondering if maybe it needed some other co-emulsifier? Cetyl alchol, cetearyl alcohol, e-wax, montanov 202, or…? Perhaps a little xanthan gum to hold it all together? I once had a lotion formula that was giving me similar problems and adding 0.25% xanthan completely took care of it.

I feel like this formula was almoooooosst perfect and just needs some slight tweak to make it stable.

Any thoughts?

Other ingredients, in no particular order:

Honey
Witch Hazel hydrosol
Aloe juice
Aqueous extracts of various herbs
Propanediol
Sodium Phytate
Kukui
GuarCat
Glycerin
Polyquaternium-7
Hemp Protein
Allantoin
Panthenol
Ginseng Extract (caprylic triglyceride based)
Vitamin E
Fragrance oil
Euxyl 9010
Citric Acid

Abdullah replied 3 years ago 5 Members · 11 Replies
11 Replies

GeorgeBenson

Member
December 27, 2021 at 8:08 am

That’s kukui OIL, fwiw
ketchito

Member
December 27, 2021 at 1:29 pm

@GeorgeBenson I’d try a sample without GuarCat and Polyquaternium-7. Also, if you have that much Behentrimonium, you wouldn’t need to use cationic polymers. If you want to increase stability of your formula as it is, I’d advise you to add a non ionic emulsifier with a very hydrophilic polar head (like Ceteareth-20).
Abdullah

Member
December 27, 2021 at 2:39 pm

Remove citric acid and sodium phytate too.

Also use less than 5% BTMS 50 and add some fatty alcohol to stabilize it.
ggpetrov

Member
December 27, 2021 at 5:54 pm

Isn’t the Allantoin anionic? Maybe I am wrong but you can’t use it in combination with strong cationic compounds.
Abdullah

Member
December 28, 2021 at 3:47 am

ggpetrov said:

Isn’t the Allantoin anionic? Maybe I am wrong but you can’t use it in combination with strong cationic compounds.

No it is not anionic. But sodium phytate and citric acid is.
GeorgeBenson

Member
December 28, 2021 at 5:28 am

Thank you for the suggestions, I will try a few new batches with these changes and hope for the best.

are the miniscule amounts of sodium phytate and citric acid that I use really enough to destabilize the formula?
Abdullah

Member
December 28, 2021 at 7:19 am

0.1% sodium phytate will and citric acid maybe.
GeorgeBenson

Member
December 28, 2021 at 7:31 am

Is there a better way to lower the pH without citric acid?
Cafe33

Member
December 28, 2021 at 7:32 am

Lactic acid is usually what I have seen used with BTMS
ggpetrov

Member
December 28, 2021 at 11:36 am

Abdullah said:

ggpetrov said:

Isn’t the Allantoin anionic? Maybe I am wrong but you can’t use it in combination with strong cationic compounds.

No it is not anionic.

Really?
Abdullah

Member
December 28, 2021 at 11:46 am

Yes lactic acid is much better