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Clay pomade not scoopable…haaaaalp!
Formula
Phase A
Water 25%
Propanediol 2%
PEG 40 10%Phase B
Kaolin clay 20%
Aminosensyl 25%
Candellila wax 15%Phase C
Fragrance 1%
Phytocide elderberry 2%I heated phase b waxes to 130 degrees then added clay. I then added phase A which had been heated to 110 degrees and mixed with a stand mixer. I then added phase C and poured into containers.
24 hours later, the consistency is smooth but not very scoopable or smooth. Its not gritty but its almost like how play doh gets when it dries out slightly, not enough to make it hard but its just not smooth and kinda clumps up.
My suspicions are that theres too much wax and I should add an oil. Or that candellila wax is the wrong choice and I should choose a different wax. Maybe adding more PEG 40 and shea butter? I dunno, I need another set of eyes to help me see what Im missing. Help please!
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9 Replies
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One more thing, big key point is that this formula contains non petroleum products and is vegan or as close to plant based as possible.
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Don’t know the answer to your question…but you’re going to need a real preservative. Even with the unlisted (adulterations) ingredients that company uses, those products are WEAK.
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Graillotion said:Don’t know the answer to your question…but you’re going to need a real preservative. Even with the unlisted (adulterations) ingredients that company uses, those products are WEAK.
What would be considered a “real” preservative?
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hi There
Heating Water to 110 °C is literally impossible. your water will evaporate a lot in the Lab it may not be a problem but in the Production, it will be.
For the wax / Oil phase I would suggest you switch at least some of the Candelilla wax to a more soft Butter or wax. Candelila Wax is very hard and the pick-up is very difficult it is normally used in sticks and stuff to make them hard. you can use a Shea Butter or a Cacobutter for a more soft pick-up. Although I would try to use some Liquid oils to get a better spreadability.
I personally would get rid of candelilla completely and use a bee wax or a vegan alternative for that if you need to stay vegan. I am not the biggest expert for pomade but I would although may use some Cetearyl alcohol for Structure (3-5%).
Another question for me is the PEG 40 Amount that is used as far as I remember the amonsensyl is already a self-emulsifing system that is capable of “emulsifying” quite some oil phases and I don’t see the necessity of adding even more Emulsifier / Solubilizer to the system with PEG 40 and 10 % seams a little much if you need some additional Emulsification.
For Preservative I would go for Sodiumbenzoat and Kaliumsorbat Combination at a Ph of 5.0 the propanediol will not be sufficient I would guess.
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samsal said:Graillotion said:Don’t know the answer to your question…but you’re going to need a real preservative. Even with the unlisted (adulterations) ingredients that company uses, those products are WEAK.
What would be considered a “real” preservative?
“Real” preservatives are ones that work.
Here is a beginning link: The best cosmetic preservatives - Chemists CornerThere are many additional tools available on this site if you search.
Happy formulating.
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To help you understand Gordof’s explanation…. ALL formula discussions are done in Celsius (so you really through him for a loop with the F reference), and weights in metric.
Perry does offer some formulating courses.
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oh sorry misunderstood that
i was so irritated by that 110 i never thought of the F scale for that -
Gordof said:hi There
Heating Water to 110 °C is literally impossible. your water will evaporate a lot in the Lab it may not be a problem but in the Production, it will be.
For the wax / Oil phase I would suggest you switch at least some of the Candelilla wax to a more soft Butter or wax. Candelila Wax is very hard and the pick-up is very difficult it is normally used in sticks and stuff to make them hard. you can use a Shea Butter or a Cacobutter for a more soft pick-up. Although I would try to use some Liquid oils to get a better spreadability.
I personally would get rid of candelilla completely and use a bee wax or a vegan alternative for that if you need to stay vegan. I am not the biggest expert for pomade but I would although may use some Cetearyl alcohol for Structure (3-5%).
Another question for me is the PEG 40 Amount that is used as far as I remember the amonsensyl is already a self-emulsifing system that is capable of “emulsifying” quite some oil phases and I don’t see the necessity of adding even more Emulsifier / Solubilizer to the system with PEG 40 and 10 % seams a little much if you need some additional Emulsification.
For Preservative I would go for Sodiumbenzoat and Kaliumsorbat Combination at a Ph of 5.0 the propanediol will not be sufficient I would guess.
First and foremost thank you for taking the time to write such an in depth response. I believe Im going to nix the Candellila wax altogether and replace it with a butter and add an oil. As for the PEG 40, I was informed by another person that makes hair products that it helps with improving the texture and makes the pomade more spreadable. The Amino sensyl I added more so for the conditioning properties for hair, I didnt know it is also used as an emulsifier/solubilizer.
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Graillotion said:samsal said:Graillotion said:Don’t know the answer to your question…but you’re going to need a real preservative. Even with the unlisted (adulterations) ingredients that company uses, those products are WEAK.
What would be considered a “real” preservative?
“Real” preservatives are ones that work.
Here is a beginning link: The best cosmetic preservatives - Chemists CornerThere are many additional tools available on this site if you search.
Happy formulating.
Thank you very much!
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