Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Carbopol Aqua sf1 (acrylates copolymer) and polyquats

  • Carbopol Aqua sf1 (acrylates copolymer) and polyquats

    Posted by Ahlmeyer on August 22, 2022 at 9:46 am

    Hello, 

    i need your experience. In Haircleansing formulations with carbopol Aqua sf1 I have the problem that the hair feels not so soft and slippery after rinse out. What can be the reason? My feelings are , that the carbopol blocked the quats ( pq10 , hydropropyl guar, Amodimethicone) so the cationic charge is not so good. 

    There is no literature from lubrizol about this. 
    Any experience? 
    Many thanks

    chemicalmatt replied 2 years, 1 month ago 5 Members · 6 Replies
  • 6 Replies
  • Microformulation

    Member
    August 22, 2022 at 11:42 am

    You would need to post your Formula. I would wager that there are other raw materials in the Formula that contribute to these properties and it is less likely to be your rheology agent.

  • Ahlmeyer

    Member
    August 22, 2022 at 1:59 pm

    I can’t post my complete formula, but I try hundreds with the same results. 

    Anionics active around 12  ( iselux sfb, akypo foam lm25)
    cocamidopropyl hydroxysultanine around 6%
    0,2 pq 10
    0,2 hydroxypropyl guar
    0,6 proteins 
    4 % microemulsion of Amodimethicone 
    6% carbopol Aqua sf1 

    to try different ph 5,5 5,8 6,0 

    It feels great during washing . But there is to less deposit on the hair. 

  • ketchito

    Member
    August 23, 2022 at 12:18 pm

    @Ahlmeyer What’s your manufacture method (order of addition, mixing speeds, times, etc.) matter when using polymers of different charge.

    Also, have you tried a simple dimethicone fluid instead of that amodimethicone microemulsion? Maybe you’re looking for a sensorial that that microemulsion won’t give you.

  • chemicalmatt

    Member
    August 24, 2022 at 3:15 pm

    Aqua SF-1 will not hold up with all the cationics. It will not allow coacervation of the PQ-10, which is the “deposit” you are seeking. I suspect HP guar is interfering there too. The problem using acrylate copolymers in conditioning shampoos is they act as anti-redeposition agents: not a good thing, right? They work great for suspension and viscosity build, but that is about it. 
    Why not get rid of SF-1 & guar and build viscosity the traditional way? Increase the PQ-10 to >0.50% while you are at it.  DEL the amodimethicone & CETAC & Trideceth-12 blend too. That is designed solely for conditioning and styling products, not shampoos. 

  • drsimranjit_lv

    Member
    October 6, 2022 at 2:12 pm

    Aqua SF-1 will not hold up with all the cationics. It will not allow coacervation of the PQ-10, which is the “deposit” you are seeking. I suspect HP guar is interfering there too. The problem using acrylate copolymers in conditioning shampoos is they act as anti-redeposition agents: not a good thing, right? They work great for suspension and viscosity build, but that is about it. 
    Why not get rid of SF-1 & guar and build viscosity the traditional way? Increase the PQ-10 to >0.50% while you are at it.  DEL the amodimethicone & CETAC & Trideceth-12 blend too. That is designed solely for conditioning and styling products, not shampoos. 

    What is the traditional way that you are referring to here?

  • chemicalmatt

    Member
    October 7, 2022 at 8:12 pm

    The classic or “traditional” built cleanser system: anionic: amphoteric: builder (usualy alkanolamide) at a ratio of 4:2:1 solid state. E.g. SLES:CAPB:Cocamide MEA at 12:6:3 percent respectively.

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