Can you help me decide on an emulsifier combo?

GeorgeBenson

Member

January 15, 2023 at 9:29 am

I want very thick!

In the past couple days I have actually successfully made what seems to be a few stable test batches with almost zero soaping using Montanov 68, SSG, GMS, and a little polymer and carbomer. I’m very happy with them.

But now I have three months of waiting for the stability test to complete during which I could become very disappointed if things start separating. So I want to make a few more with different methods so i have some backup… just in case. Zen+EMT+Cetearyl seems a good place to start. Polymers dont soap and have been very good to me stability-wise.

Graillotion

Member

January 15, 2023 at 9:48 am

Pick up a cheap centrifuge off Amazon…and some freeze thaw cycles…and you’ll have an idea. But more importantly….if you used good builders…and good equipment…you should have a reasonable idea.

Squinny

Member

January 15, 2023 at 11:59 pm

Graillotion said:

Squinny said:

Graillotion said:

@GeorgeBenson take a look at this old thread:

TEC as an antisoaping device…. — Cosmetic Science Talk (chemistscorner.com)

And the comment from the brilliant Swiss mind.

I would suggest…a 2-3% try. Replace an emollient of your choice…with this…but keep some of what you were replacing….to work towards the cascade.

Hi there @Graillotion - Interesting (sorry if I am hijacking this thread!) - I am also wanting to make an insect repellent and have come up with a formula that I have no idea if it will be any good for mozzies (but I like the small ha!). So mine is basically Water, Neem Oil, Coco Caprylate, and essential Oils - Citronella, Peppermint, Kunzea, Tea Tree + emulsifier Glyceryl Stearate (and) PEG-100) Zepimax Zen, Preservative. I want the lotion to be quite think milk like. After reading this might at 1% TEC. What are your thoughts and do you have any special ingredient especially for mozzies? ( I know TEC isnt for mozzies!) I just want to make for my partner who spends lots of time in wet tropics bushland - and lots of ticks and mozzies - and I dont want him using DEET anymore. Any advice is appreciated. Cheers

Yes…you need the TEC…as a solubilizer for the EO’s…and 1% was the rate I used. Mix the TEC and the EO’s seperately…and then add that slurry post emulsion.

The problem with that concept….is it will only protect right in the neighborhood of 17 minutes. After that point…all the volatile EO molecules will have jumped off….and the victim will be ripe for blood letting.

It takes a TON more work….to get it to last a few hours.

Thanks so what is your secret ingredient that makes yours work beyond 17 mins? Is there a paper on this and haven’t heard of OE’s jumping off before. Also whenever I add EO’s in other lotions or Creams I haven’t used a solubilizer just added them in cooldown and mixed thoroughly in the emulsion. So is a solubilizer necessary? When I do products such as Room/Pillow Sprays with EO’s I use Polysorbate 20. Cheers looking forward to your views.

Graillotion

Member

January 16, 2023 at 12:14 am

EO’s are volatile (jumping off). What keeps the mosquitos away…is those volatile molecules…jumping into the air (creating a mini force-field)….and the mosquito deciding…hmmn…this doesn’t taste/smell very good (or I’m confused)…so they become disoriented…and don’t bite. The EO’s only have a finite about of these bouncy molecules to give…(about 17 minutes worth)…in the volume needed to repel/confuse/disorient. We can smell them beyond 17 min…but they are no longer producing the volume…needed to be effective against the highly motivated….mosquito.

Squinny

Member

January 17, 2023 at 5:08 am

Thanks @Graillotion - You made me look into further which I wouldn’t have otherwise and think I have come up with a better product because of your views. Cheers

Graillotion

Member

January 17, 2023 at 5:20 am

Squinny said:

Thanks @Graillotion - You made me look into further which I wouldn’t have otherwise and think I have come up with a better product because of your views. Cheers

I did a year of research….and still have faint dreams of making it a commercial product….so I did not show many of my cards.

It was fun to sit in the rain forest….and watch the mosquitos…it was like they were drunk…the first 17 min…. the would fly right into me…not landing….but crashing…like they were drunk. Those volatile molecules…really confused them.

I went with a VERY multi-pronged approach…EO’s being just one avenue. However….the key ingredient that made it all work….caused so much oxidation…. I could not overcome it.

Squinny

Member

January 17, 2023 at 5:41 am

Ha love the experiment So out of interest what was your oxidizing ‘key’ ingredient? And I’m not looking to sell it just for my partner - so even If I make him a small batch each time he goes bush - Or does it oxidize straight away?