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Formulating

BTMS

Posted by rettinsr on February 28, 2017 at 7:33 pm

Hello Experts,
Much thanks in advance. I am trying to make a conditioner with my favorite cationic, BTMS. Problem is, I am sensitive to cetearyl alcohol. BTMS 50 (with cetyl alcohol) makes my a hair a frizzy mess (likely from butylene glycol). I’m trying to get my hands on a BTMS ONLY product so I can mix with cetyl alcohol on my own. Logistically, does anyone know where I could purchase this?

Also, I have tried behentrimonium chloride with lot’s of stinging and irritation….hard to imagine they are so different and pH is listed as the same.
Thank you so much in advance!

komirra replied 7 years, 9 months ago 5 Members · 10 Replies
- btms
10 Replies

komirra

Member
February 28, 2017 at 8:16 pm

Well how much behentrimonium chloride are you using? I have used it and only found it to be irritating at levels higher than 2.5%. So .5- 2.5% I have seen no irritation.

You could also consider using a different cationic component, such asStearamidopropyl dimethylamine. The pH has to be adjusted but it works.

I don’t know of any wholesellers that sale BTMS to homecrafters. The closest I have seen is behentrimonium chloride.

perhaps adding a silicone at 2% with the BTMS-50 could help combat the frizzies.
Bobzchemist

Member
February 28, 2017 at 9:11 pm

I’m a bit confused. You say that BTMS is your favorite cationic conditioner, yet you can only get it as BTMS-50, which you are sensitive to due to the presence of cetyl alcohol? And it leaves your hair a frizzy mess?

How is this your “favorite”, then?
rettinsr

Member
February 28, 2017 at 9:55 pm

BTMS with cetearyl alcohol (BTMS 225) looks great on my hair but the cetearyl alcohol makes my scalp itch. For my facial moisturizers, BMTS 50 works beautifully, but for a conditioner BTMS 50 makes my hair frizzy- on account of the butylene glycol. I’d love a BTMS-cetyl alcohol product or a stand-alone BTMS that I could mix with cetyl alcohol. Thank you for responding. I am out of my element!
rettinsr

Member
February 28, 2017 at 9:57 pm

Thank you so much Komirra,
I’ll try both the behentrimonium chloride at a lower percentage and the Stearamidopropyl dimethylamine. With what percentage would you start? Adjust to 6.5?
Chemist77

Member
March 1, 2017 at 3:36 am

Good suggestion by @komirra, SAPDMA will definitely boost the conditioning. You will need to acid neutralize it to pH 3-4 though.
komirra

Member
March 1, 2017 at 3:08 pm

@rettinsr
I tend to neutralize mine to ~5 pH instead of 3-4, but then again I usually combine it with behtrimonium Chlroide or BTMS-50, so it will keep the emulsion stable. I have really dry hair, so I like SAPDMA at 2% and Behtrimoiun Chloride at 2%, together.
rettinsr

Member
March 18, 2017 at 6:17 am

komirra, chemist77- you guys saved me a world of trouble! Bringing down the pH’s of my conditioners to around 4 helped enormously with the scalp burning. I have an embarrassingly extensive science education- but nothing in cosmetic chemistry, and it shows! Now, I’m just trying to make a mixture that works for my hair: komirra, where do you get SAPDMA from? I couldn’t find it in any of the usual haunts.
johnb

Member
March 18, 2017 at 11:03 am

Small quantities of SAPDMA can be bought from https://www.aromantic.co.uk/home/products/emulsifiers/conditioner-emulsifier.aspx
rettinsr

Member
March 18, 2017 at 8:40 pm

Thank you! I’ll let you know how it turns out.
komirra

Member
March 20, 2017 at 4:21 pm

@rettinsr
If you are in the usa, you can order this ingredient from Makingcosmetics.com. This is where i order it from. But I also think it is avaliable at ingredientstodiefor.com , but I have never ordered from this site.