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Body Wash Formulation Help
I am trying to create a dupe of a well-known body wash from the brand Native and running into problems with viscosity.
The ingredients listed are :
Water, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Chloride, Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, Fragrance, Sodium Salicylate, Sodium Benzoate, Citric Acid
From what I can tell, the formula likely uses a high percentage of Capb. Sodium Chloride probably doesn’t exceed 3-4%, and the Sarcosinate and SCI levels should be lower than that. Based on that I have tested multiple versions.
* 20-30% Capb (45 Active)
* Around 3-4% each of Sarcosinate and SCI, I also tried 10% Sarcosinate (mine is 30% active) since I know some versions are available in powder form with higher actives.
I have had no issue with SCI precipitation and maneged to get a stable, clear liquid
The formulation doesnt respond to Sodium Chloride at all - no thickening, no matter what I do. I dont want to use polymers or other thickeners - I want to stick to the original formula and thicken it with salt, just like Native seems to do.
I have tested different ph levels and various salt concentrations, but nothing works.
Any idea why this system refuses to thicken with salt?
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9 Replies
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I would start questioning the order on the ingredients list: the one on their website is this “Salt, Citric Acid, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, Water, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Benzoate, Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate, Sodium Salicylate, Fragrance.“, which obviously it’s not accurate, as the first listed ingredient should not be salt.
The list you’ve provided, again, might be just a “convenient “variation, and not the real order of the ingredients. Unfortunately that’s a pretty common practice when a company is not big- they think only the big players are exposed…
You could ignore the order on the list and just make a body wash with CAPB as a secondary surfactant, and SCI+SLS as the primary ones, and see how that goes.
That aside, the liquid form of CAPB comes with salt. The one I use has 37% active, and 5.8-7.3% sodium chloride, so you’ll have around 1.8-2% salt if using 30% CAPB, and that can already be too much for the surfactant system you’ve used- hence the system “doesnt respond to Sodium Chloride at all - no thickening, no matter what I do”. There’s also the possibility that I’m thinking according only to my experience and not to the real chemistry, so I’ll pass this ball to @ketchito 😇
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Just thought I would mention that Native has been owned by Procter & Gamble (P&G) since 2017. The ingredients list on their most recently released body wash is as follows:
Water, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Chloride, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate, Fragrance, Sodium Salicylate, Sodium Benzoate, Citric Acid.
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Thank you for the heads-up.
Does that leave the salt present in the liquid CAPB as the “culprit”?
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That sounds like a logical deduction. Unfortunately, I’m not an expert, so I can’t say for certain. 😅
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Thanks for your answer!
The list I have is from the back label, and since the brand is now owned by P&G, I’m confident it’s accurate. Although the INCI list on their website matches what you mentioned, I believe that one is simply incorrect.
Even putting the list aside, I’ve tried dissolving SCI with lower amounts of CAPB and SLS, but it hasn’t worked for me. I end up with a white, lotion-like consistency with clumps—nothing like the clear liquid in the original product.
You’re right that CAPB contains salt, but I’m not sure whether that salt is typically listed as a separate ingredient. Since sodium chloride is explicitly listed in their ingredients, they must have added extra salt in the formulation.
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“Since sodium chloride is explicitly listed in their ingredients, they must have added extra salt in the formulation.”- there’s the possibility that the less-than-1%-line starts with sodium chloride, and also the possibility that they used CAPB powder.
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Hey, I am curious about the “no precipitation/clear formulation” whilst using SCI. I always end up with hazy/turbid formulation whenever I use SCI. Would you please share your experience working with SCI? Thanks in advance. 🙂
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I think @Aniela solved it. Probably the excess salt overall doesn’t let you build high viscosity (sec. viscosity curve). You could try the following formula:
Water q.s., CAPB 15%, Sarcosinate 10%, NaCl 1%, SCI 1%, NaSalicylate 0.4%, NaBenzoate 0.4%, Citric acid q.s. You’d need to reinforce your preservative system, and it’s always a good idea to add a chelant.
Add the NaCl little by little (like 0.2% additions) since you don’t know the salt curve of that mixture.
Sarcosinates are harder to thicken than SLES…perhaps you could try with Olefin sulfonate instead.
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Do not play with pH. Benzoate/sal acid preservation can be effective but is very very formula and pH sensitive. As ketckito said - you should represerve.
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