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Avoiding tacky and turbid gels
Hey yall,
Been working on a personal lubricant formula (non edible) for a customer and am looking for some guidance.
1) the gel applies well, but after 30-45 seconds, I feel a slight tackiness, but it does dissipate after a few seconds.
2) the gel is fairly turbid and I would like to improve its appearance if possible. There is a small oil phase involved.
The recipe:
Phase A= 200g
A:
Distilled water: q.s.
Aloe vera juice 1x: 5%
Glycerin: 2.5%
Butylene Glycol: 4%
K Sorbate: 0.1%
Na Benzoate: 0.1%
Citric Acid: q.s. to pH 4.0B:
CBD oil: 1g
PEG 40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil: 2.5g
Polysorbate 80: 0.5gC:
Cationic Guar gum: 1%1. Add A and mix
2. Heat/mix B
3. Add B to A
4. Add C to A/BSome thoughts I’ve had:
- since I am using PEG based emulsifiers, can I use a low HLB co-emulsifier like GMS or lecithin to hone in on the ideal HLB value for my oil phase? And would that improve its appearance at all?
- what are my options for improving ‘tackiness’? i.e. silicones? Less juice and glycerin? Etc?
Thank you in advance!!!
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9 Replies
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Am I shooting myself in the foot by using a cationic in a formula intended to be a lubricant? Could its good film forming properties and possible electrostatic interaction with body hair contribute to a tacky, unpleasant effect on the user?
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@SlingerD These types of formulation is quite difficult to create to keep them safe and pleasurable. pH of the final product and osmolality along with irritating potential of the ingredients are the key factors.
I am afraid that Aloe is an appropriate ingredient in this type of formulations due to its high irritating potential for the mucous membranes and the tender skin. It is getting even more irritated when coupling with surfactants, especially those that are regularly used as solubilizers.
I assume that the tacky effect comes from Glycerin, Aloe, Gum, PEG 40 HCO and Polysorbate.
Small amount of cationics could be added carefully, but they can be also highly irritated. -
@SlingerD. What CBD oil is intended to do in your formulation?
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@vitalys thanks for the heads up. I havent a had chance to do any direct stability testing to it in my at-home work area yet other than putting a sample in a 20ml clear glass vial and leaving at room temp. One week later, the viscosity is still stable and nothing has separated yet. I need to do a lot more observation and challenges and checking baseline numbers like pH and watching it for change.
I’ve bought a couple products on amazon and the like with many positive reviews, and they use similar ingredients although less solubilizers and make it to market and am wondering what they do that makes it work.
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@vitalys the CBD oil addition is a request of the customer. It can be an excellent analgesic and have mild numbing properties and is very trendy in a variety of retail settings currently.
Also to note, I have been using a distilled oil which is not an isolated molecule and thus it contains a variety of different compounds besides the cannabidiol, such as phospholipids, waxes, other cannabinoids, etc. I made the assumption this oil needs a relatively strong solubilizing system for it to properly hold in solution. I am no chemist or expert about anything… just a passionate soap and candle guy that has been reading this forum for a while ????
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(1) Personal lubricants are regulated as 510K Medical Devices in the US. Are you and your client aware of this? If you don’t do the proper testing, the FDA has been quite aggressive about pulling untested/unapproved personal lubricants from the market
(2) You would be better off using a water-soluble CBD nanoemulsion. Look specifically for a CBD nanoemulsion made with Lecithin as opposed to any of the Polysorbates. There are several vendors of water-soluble CBD. Contact Kazmira, they have a nice product with a relatively high CBD load. In reality, the CBD in this formula is just a marketing label ingredient. A water-soluble CBD nanoemulsion allows you to eliminate the solubilizers PEG Castor Oil and Polysorbate … they become unnecessary.
(3) Glycerin at 2.5% … that’s a hot, sticky mess. You can cut that down to 0.5%.
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@MarkBroussard thanks mark!
1) Yes, I am aware of the 510k regulations for medical devices. I am a lab tech for a CBD manufacturing company and we are working with a client who already sells vibrators on the market and has a non CBD lubricant already for sale. We are getting ready to transition into a new construction, GMP certified facility by mid summer and should be in good position to fit the criteria. I like playing in my little at-home lab as well and making some concoctions for personal use and so I can add some relevant knowledge to our chemist who is leading the project.
2) I will look into contacting Kazmira. Thanks for the suggestion. At work, we have been using a product called VesiSorb, which frankly I have found to be a pain and, even with a lecithin addition, is not as great for these emulsions as they claim and has trouble holding oil loads over 2% based on our SOPs. I’ve been planning an attempt to concoct my own water soluble blend with gum Arabic and lecithin, but now there are some quality products on the market and my time may be better spent working on something else..
3) thanks for the heads up on glycerin. Adding the BG made a huge difference in feel and glide and seems to be my primary humectant in this case. Glycerin itself seems to be a claim ingredient these days…
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@Slinger:
You would be better off just eliminating Glycerin from the formula altogether.
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@MarkBroussard noted and will do. Thanks for the help!
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