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Asking for help regarding a lotion-type serum
Hi.
I’m trying to make a lotion-type serum and it does not seem to thicken at all. The end product is very watery and has no body to it at all. I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong. Here is my basic formula:
Distilled Water - 78%
GSB (preservative) - 1.5%
Propanediol - 10%
Solagum AX - 1.5%
Olivem 1000 - 3%
Essential Oil - 3%
Carrier Oil #1 - 2%
Carrier Oil #2 - 1%
Heated the water and the GSB.
Created a slurry with the Propanediol and Solagum AX.
Added slurry mixture into the water phase.
Heated the oil phase and added it to the water phase.
Cooled down and added the essential oil.
It appears that an emulsion formed as there seems to be no separation of ingredients. The only issue that I can see is that the finished product does not have a lotion-y texture. It is very thin just like water.
Any help that you can provide would be greatly appreciated
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15 Replies
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Olivem 3000 is not a powerful emulsifier (it has a low degree of ethoxylation). Also, propanediol might be impairing emulsion formation, so either remove it (and add your gum with high mixing directly to the water phase), or reduce it to 1%. You can check big brand’s to see what common emulsifiers they use.
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I would keep propanediol in at 3-5% so reduce it. Reduce essential oil to <1%. I’m not sure what is meant by carrier oil but I would have up to 5-8% oils/waxes in the oil phase along with the Olivem 1000. You can try a wax/alcohol/solid material and see how that thickens the formulation. I’m not sure if you will need some Glyceryl Stearate or not but it is pretty cheap anyway so I would add it at 0.5-1%. I have found Olivem 1000 formulations can separate if they are too thin so make sure you do some rapid stability testing such as Freeze/Thaw, 50C for a period, centrifuge etc. Once you have thickened the formulation you can then decide which ingredients to back off on. If you don’t have the formulation optimised Olivem 1000 emulsions can be quite whitening so you will need to check this early and figure out the best ingredients to use. I have found fatty alcohols in products to be cost effective but the trade off can be whitening.
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Thank you both for your help and advice. I decreased the propanediol to 5%, increased the Olivem 1000 to 5%, doubled both carrier oils to increase my oil load to 6%. I was sure this time to allow 20 minutes for the Sloagum AX slurry to fully hydrate before heating the water phase. Initial results are that I have an emulsion that has the consistency of a lotion. Will see if it separates come tomorrow.
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Olivem won’t thicken a formula unlike other emulsifiers. Steric acid has incredible thickening properties and a nice skin feel. I personally hate olive m and I generally don’t like gums because I’m a beginner and it has a tendency to fish eye, I’ve ruined hundreds of dollars in formulas because of it. However, I do use cationic guar in one lotion, without it, the lotion is extremely unstable. Lotions are probably the more chemically complex thing I’ve ever tried creating from scratch. A ready made recipe, generic one is easy and usually works but I wanted to create my own so that’s why its so complex and likely why you may be having issues with texture. Are you looking for a more gel like texture? Creamy? Powdery? That’ll determine what ingredients to use. Are by chance marketing it as plant based, natural? That’ll also determine what to use. One of my favorites is cetyl alcohol for the powdery feel and kokum butter for the hardening and thickening feel without the greasiness.
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What’s your process for adding and mixing gums?
Which gums have you tried?
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sclerotium gum is easy but overall I think those are the two I’ve used
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This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by MaidenOrangeBlossom.
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This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by
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I wouldn’t say stearic acid gives nice feel. It creates soapy textures
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I mix it in glycerine and then use high sheer but it can still go awry. But many on here use it sucessfully.
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I also premix certain gums with glycerin. I found that adding the premix in aliquots and mixing thoroughly in between helped reduce the amount of fisheyes or agglomerations I saw.
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I started to add my gum (Xanthan) into oil phase now.
Once I have my formula and know how much, it is easier to disperse it in oil. Also easier to heat water-thin water, not risking any burns if it is too thick.
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Never heard of that but maybe that can work. I’ve stayed away from gums because of the evil eye.
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For such a formulation you need to use a tickening agent like Carbomer. I am making such creme gel with the Olivem 1000 in the water phase, but I also use texturizer like Oliwax LC and Carbomer offcoarse. For such formulations the natural gums are not the best approach.
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Hi,
I do not have any experience with synthetic polymers, only with the so-called natural ones.
My supplier started recently to sell Aristoflex AVC, and I’m thinking to order it and experiment with it.
Would Aristoflex AVC work in a formula similar to what you’ve described here, please?
Any idea where it fits best? My supplier is pretty scarce with the using guidance.
Thank you.
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Aristoflex will do the job, certainly. I don’t have experience with it, so I cannot give you a proper advice, but there is a lot info about it around. Just keep in mind that it is pre neutralized, means you should use it after emulsification, because it is sensitive to high shear forces. Where are you located?
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Thank you for answering.
I’ll definitely dig deeper.
I was just curious if there are more incompatibilities than in my supplier’s guidance “sensitive to electrolytes; not suitable for thickening shampoos or shower gels containing higher amounts of salt“.
Based on your answer, there are: you advised me to use it after emulsification, because it is sensitive to high shear forces, whereas my supplier says “usually added to the oil phase, gentle agitation facilitating dispersion“.
I’m in Eastern Europe, and the few suppliers in my country are keen on selling “natural” ingredients. I’ve found some synthetic ingredients which looked interesting to me at two labs, but they sell to the pharmaceutical industry, so there’s a minimum order of 20 kilograms🙃
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