• Formulating

  Advice to reduce micro-foam (white rub in time) in this formula?

  Posted by suswang8 on November 16, 2020 at 6:08 pm

  Hi, all.
  I’m quite happy with the performance of the below test run, but my one slight concern is “white rub-in time,” which is a bit longer than ideal.

  10% almond oil
  86.75% water
  0.8% cetyl alcohol
  0.8% sorbitan stearate
  0.4% Montanov 68
  0.4% Montanov 202
  0.25% Xanthan Gum

  I believe my total concentration of emulsifier (2.4%) is quite low relative to the oil amount, but perhaps I can get away with reducing one of the individual components a tiny bit further without hurting stability?

  Thank you.

  emma1985 replied 4 years ago 5 Members · 5 Replies
• 5 Replies

• 

  jemolian

  Member

  November 17, 2020 at 6:49 am

  I’ve not tried sorbitan stearate but actually with a formula made with 2% Montanov 202 + 1.5% Cetyl Alcohol, it should be reasonably stable on it’s own as a lotion. If not you can do 1:1:1 for Montanov 202, 68 & Cetyl if you prefer a thicker cream. 

  Sometimes the type of gum can make the foaming worse, so you can perhaps reduce it or change it. 

  Adding silicones or other alternatives would be fine as well. Perhaps 2% Dimethicone ? 

• 

  ngarayeva001

  Member

  November 17, 2020 at 8:14 am

  Agree with 2% dimethicone 

• 

  suswang8

  Member

  November 17, 2020 at 8:52 pm

  Trying to remain silicone free :smiley:, but thank you.   Maybe I will try reducing the sorbitan stearate?

• 

  Graillotion

  Member

  November 17, 2020 at 9:14 pm

  Since I work with both M 202 and M 68….I can tell you…M 68 soaps more than 202.
  I use about 8% of super slip ingredients to minimize soaping.   IL being the main one.

• 

  emma1985

  Member

  November 18, 2020 at 7:27 am

  Isn’t Xanthan Gum notorious for causing soaping? Dimethicone is gold standard imo but some other ingredients that I think help are Lauryl Laurate, Isopropyl Myristate and Squalane/Hemi Squalane. All add a ton of glide which is how I suspect they help (I think this might be called low surface tension.) You can try Dimethicone alternatives like Natrasil and Daikon Seed Extract but I’ve used both and in my experience neither works nearly as well.

  I agree with the suggestion that 202 causes less soaping, I used no Dimethicone in my last 202 emulsion and had no soaping (though I did use some of the other ingredients I named.)

  My first step would be removing Xanthan Gum, though.

  In my experience Cetyl Alcohol helps a lot but you need at least 1.5%. I would remove Xanthan and increase Cetyl Alcohol. 

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