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Your precious share for emulsion
Hi all , i want to discuss two things about emulsion :
1) we have cream deo Formulation contains: Water, Chlorhydrate aluminium, Cetearyl Alcohol, Ceteareth-2, Ppg-15 Stearyl Ether, Isopropyl Myristate, Propylene glycol, Ceteareth-20, parfum, Phenoxyethanol, Sodium benzoate.
In laboratory scale the viscosity of cream is always great, the problem in industrial scale some batches gives lower viscosity even we are trying to maintain as possible the process (time and speed of mixing, batch size)
So heating the cream to 50 °C with mixing make the cream thicker, so my question why some batches have lower viscosity and why when we reheat it with mixing it reaches the desired viscosity?
2) I was working cream with sabowax A.E but lack of it’s disponibality I want to find other alternative (I have in hand Cetearyl alcohol, Ceteareth-2, gms se, Ceteareth-20, solubilisant LRI)
Any recommended combination to have lovely emulsifier and emulsion?
@Abdullah @chemicalmatt @ngarayeva001 @Perry44 @ketchito @Graillotion @ozgirl @Paprik @Cafe33 @Pharma
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11 Replies
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Why questions are always difficult but the mostly likely reason is that you are not getting the same mixing shear and temperature profile in the large tank versus the lab beakers. The difference in energy is probably the cause.
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yes that’s answer just the difference between laboratory and industrial scale and it is for sure what you said.however my two questions are not about that .
the first is why in industrial size and trying to maintain same process we get important difference in viscosity in differents baches (some have lower viscosity then desired one)
the second question why the batches have lower viscosity become fine in industrial scale by reheating to 50 C degree and even lower with mixing?
Any expert have explaination or even doubts my helps ? thanks in advance
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I feel @Perry44 answered these questions for you with much better brevity than I have.
The first question “why does it have lower viscosity when you stick to same method” is pretty common (well I thought it was?) when scaling up? Because with industrial scale small inconsistencies are much harder to control. Industrial tanks may not provide the same level of shear as lab equipment, which will lead to uneven blending of ingredients. Temperature control can also be trickier and slight variations across the batch can affect things like fatty acids and fatty alcohols, and they can crystallise. Even raw materials, which seem identical, can have minor differences in composition that don’t cause issues in the lab but become more noticeable in bigger batches. Cooling speed would also affect the way a structure forms.
“the second question why the batches have lower viscosity become fine in industrial scale by reheating to 50 C degree and even lower with mixing?”
I’m going to assume this fixes the viscosity because it essentially allows the emulsion to reset. Like would re-melting the crystallised components, like fatty acids/alcohols helps them reorganise into a more stable structure, which boosts thickness. Maybe it’s also like breaking up clumps or poorly blended areas and helping dispersion or it could be reforming droplets or adjusting the drop size, too, right? So maybe that is increasing viscosity and stability.So with some brevity (something I suck at), it’s most likely due to inconsistencies in mixing, cooling, or raw material quality, and reheating effectively gives the emulsion a second chance to form correctly.
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@Juggsy thanks a lot for your awsome answer and explanation really very informative. About brevity, reading your answer i wanted to read more and find longer answer🙂❤️. Keep sharing interesting details and sush on long answers because they are a real tresor.
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Any idea please?
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1. You didn’t give information about your procedure, lab equipments and large scale equipments and batch size.
2. Do you apply high shear when you mix and heat for second time?
3. How many batches has become like this?
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1) batch size almost 300 kg mixing with both anchor agitator and Turbine agitator placed in the bottom of the tank ( i have also dobt that bad ratio made between (turbine diameter/tank diameter) is bad , in bibliography ratio almost superior then 0.25 in our case it is inferior then 0.20 even the place of turbine in the bottom is not the adequat place according to what i saw in my class and bibliography (generally it is placed higher then the bottom ) @Juggsy any comment about these details i will be soo thankful .
About heating and cooling it is double wall tank .2) As described , yes with mixing by turbine.
3) You ask about frequence ? the question is not clear for me if you can explain more.
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I mean how many 300kg batches have you made and how many of them had this problem or all of them had? <div>
How do you re heat and mix it?
I saw somewhere that if you mix mix an emulsion after cool down for some time it will increase viscosity and and stability. I don’t remember if it was with a specific emulsifier or all emulsions.
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Not for all batches we find problem .
how to reheat and mix ? as heating nothing special same for mixing.
About mixing in cool down i guess it is true accordiong to older production.
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Lots of valuable insights already! From my side - more questions than answers but not enough information to be able to help you.
What is the batch size and equipment used in lab scale?
Does the equipment at industrial scale have recirculation loops or is it a tank only? Is the equipment qualified?
Is the batch manufacturing record written properly so that the exact same manufacturing procedure and parameters are executed every time? are the operators trained? can you give an example for speed limits/interval of turbine agitator you have at manufacturing?
Have you defined the cooling rate ( *C/min) in lab scale and compared to industrial scale?
Additionally to the things mentioned above, I would start by checking emulsion droplets of the emulsion in lab vs industrial scale ( before and after reheating to 50*C) and go from there.
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the batch in laboratory is 100 grammes with turbine agitator.
There is no recirculation system in industrial batch. (is the equipment is qualified I already make description if you can share your opinion about that question)
The process is described in specific paper for sure with all details… And the operator is doctor in chemistry.Cooling speed for laboratory it needs just an hour to decrease from 75 to 40 °C however in industrial batch it needs more then 4 hours.
Wich rest you will check the droplets of emulsion and what will benifit knowing that?
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