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Making free sulfate shampoo
I’am planing good quality free sulfate shampoo so I want some recommendations from expert for that product :
*Best thickener can used: hpmc, hec, peg 150,saboderm sho,ultrez carbomer, versathix,others…
*best surfactants(combinaison) :Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate,coco glucoside, caprylyl capryl glucoside, CAPB, disodium cocoamphoacetate, sodium lauroyl sarcosinate, peg 7 glyceryl cocoate, peg 75 lanolin ,isethionates,others…
Best conditioners: silicones (may cationic to not reduce foam), Pq7, Pq10, other pq, keratin, protein, silk, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, others
@Perry44 @ketchito @Chemist77 @Paprik @Graillotion @PhilGeis @Pharma @ngarayeva001 and ohers????
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26 Replies
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I cannot recommend any of those thickeners, pal. Are you opposed to using alkanolamide builders or acrylic polymers? If acrylics are not in your plan use Poyquaternium-10 at 1.0% w/w for conditioning effect, with or without silicone, and keep it simple: alpha olefin sulfonate / disodium cocoamphoacetate / then the capryl glucoside or Ninol CAA (Stepan) dimethyl amide to build viscosity.
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Thanks a lot for you precious answer. Actually i’am open to any good input whatever in thickener, conditioners and surfactants however can you explain me why you will not use any one from listed thickners?
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@Paprik @Abdullah @ketchito @Perry44 @chemicalmatt @Cafe33 @ngarayeva001 any add please?
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I don’t think I will be much of a help in this. I use Sodium Coco Sulfate mostly.
But, starting to use PEG-150 Distearate or PEG-120 Methyl Glucose Dioleate as a thickener - but for facial cleansers. Not sure how well they would perform in hair products. Although the second one is recommended in shampoo formulas.
You could pair it with HPMC and I would agree with ChemMatt - keep it simple, bearing in mind that HPMC is not compatible with glucosides, polysorbates etc.. (if I remember correctly).
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Thanks a lot @Paprik just technically sodium coco sulfate is not free sulfate product may it is commercially free sulfate?!
About may plan i’am thinking about using alpha olefin sulfonate, then may CAPB, and or glucoside same for sodium lauroyl sacrosinate.
As thickener I guess I I’ll try alot, cationic guar, Hpmc, ultrez 20,saboderm sho, (Xanthan+guar) gum, versathix.
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I don’t think you can call is commercially sulfate-free. You could call it “natural”, from coconut. Directly from the beach to your hair 😀
Sacrosinate is anionic, so bear that in mind (when pairing with alpha olefin sulfonate) and generally stable pH>5.
Good luck! Keep us posted 🙂
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Whatever I will not use sodium coco sulfate ???? and OK boss I will try to make professionals keeping comment.
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PEG-120 Methyl Glucose Dioleate - I would highly recommend to avoid this ingredient in Sulfate free Hair Products. Once it is added at over 2.0% in a formula it is extremely difficult to rinse out especially in sulfate free shampoos. Very sticky. It also does not provide stability like acrylic copolymers. I endured a lot of formula separation.
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That is what I was actually thinking. As I know it feels a bit “draggy” and “waxy”, if you will, on the face, which is somewhat soothing and mild-like. So I wasn’t sure about the hair situation.
Pairing with HPMC could help as it could add a bit more slip and boost the foam.
But yeah, not much of a help on this one 🙂
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Carbopol ETD 2020 - Changed everything for me. I use around 0.6-0.7 % depending on the formula. I have a couple of bottle of shampoo trials, should be around 1.5 years old. They sit in different showers and not a hint of separation and they are loaded with surfactants and 1.5% Fragrance. That is the best tip I can give you. It is a little finicky to use and tends to clump up if you do not follow instructions very carefully.
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@Cafe33 It is very interesting tip just i’am familiar working with carbopol so the instructions you meant high shear and adequate neutralisation or more for carbopol edt 2020?
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What are you tips to avoid the clumping and achieve perfect dispersion/hydration?
I haven’t found anything special in the instructions/datasheets on Prospector.
And I do tend to have issues with lumping so I just mix it, and mix it, and mix it … but also avoiding introducing air.
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@Paprik I worked with ultrez 20 which seems too near to edt 2020 so there is no special just high shear for 15 to 25 min with neutralisation and you succeed.
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Carbopol ETD 2020 is closer to Ultrez 10 in the way it behaves. There are two options to avoid fish eyes. If you proceed in the same way as when you are formulating with ultrez 20, you will most likely get the fish eyes. The first option is to create a 2% dispersion to avoid separation (you will notice that it tends to separate to a top layer). The second and simpler option is to partially neutralize BEFORE the addition of surfactants. 10% of the total alkaline base you intended to use. pH will be 3.8 - 4.0. Once partially neutralized, proceed as you would with Ultrez 20, anionics etc
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<div>@Cafe33 thanks a lot for amazing sharing.</div>
I just worked with ultrez 20 in cream, that’s why maybe I did not face fish eyes problem?!
Then do you think that ultrez 20 for 10% free sulfate active surfactants can give excellent sensory feeling and stability as carbopol edt 2020 it did?
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With AOS and CAPB you can use NACL to increase viscosity.
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Why are you avoiding sulphate?
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It is free sulfate product a requirement from customer.
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Carrageenan is the usual choice
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Thanks a lot @ketchito actually in general the used gelifiant is sodium carboxymethylcellulose not as I wrote, then I see some formulation use combination between sodium cmc and xanthan gum.
I used hpmc adding food grade of sodium bicarbonate the viscosity decrease dramatically going to water viscosity starting with higher viscosity then gel toothpaste.
So any specific carateristic of Carrageenan which make it good choice for toothpaste?
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Even in process all I watched use hot process however no one of toothpaste paste need hot process, I guess hot process give better reaction then better viscosity and cohesion?
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There are many patents from P&G and Colgate, they both use carrageenan. Here’s an example: https://patents.google.com/patent/US4457908A/en
patents.google.com
US4457908A - Stabilization of carrageenan-containing toothpaste - Google Patents
A method for stabilizing a cosmetic composition containing carrageenan, specifically, a toothpaste, wherein microwave radiation, preferably in the 0.8 to 3 gigahertz frequency range, is directed onto the toothpaste so as to raise its temperature to at least the gel-sol … Continue reading
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No it will not. Ultrez 20 is not suitable for Shampoo. I ran trials before coming to that conclusion since it would have been a savings for us not to invest in another type of Carbopol.
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Thanks a lot for this share @Cafe33
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