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Montanov 202 and additional behenyl alcohol…. What is logical?
I like to formulate with both Montanov 202, INCI: Arachidyl Alcohol, Behenyl Alcohol, Arachidyl Glucoside, and my favorite fatty alcohol is also Behenyl alcohol.
Sometime my mind plays twister with what is logical. So, if I need more fatty alcohol…does it make sense to just keep adding more behenyl in the presence of an emulsifier that already contains it?
In the current project, I am looking at a cream deodorant, that I want to go on dry and powdery. I have been using behenyl and cetyl palmitate as part of the thickening program. Would it be more logical to use something like Myristyl Myristate in the context of an emulsifier that already contains behenyl? Also in the context of a deodorant cream, which is most likely to give the ultimate dry feel? (More behenyl or adding some MM to the mix?)
Aloha.
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9 Replies
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Does a blend of MM and Behenyl…create something drier than using one or the other?
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I would prefer adding more behenyl alcohol.
By the way, i saw somewhere that said with behenyl alcohol you should use glyceryl stearate otherwise it would not be very stable.
Are you using GMS with it or not for this reason.I don’t know if this is true or not. That is why i am asking your experience.
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@Abdullah you are right: a little GMS helps build lamellar liquid crystal network favorable to viscosity and stability build. @Graillotion you are also on the right path there, MM or CP (nearly same thing) will add a softer sensorial finish. More esters, less fatty alcohol is my advice. As for using behenyl OH as builder, you are just as well off with cetearyl alcohol, and the cetearyl costs less. Behenyl OH does contribute the softer sensorial though.
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Thank you @Abdullah and @chemicalmatt ! I always pair my Montanov emulsions with a 165 type emulsifier (and an anionic). I also always use a polymeric, a dusting of Solagum AX and a kiss of Glycerol oleate (more for the refatting).
Matt, the formula has lots…and lots of slip and slides (can you say… ‘laurates’…. my good friends lauryl and isoamyl…hehehe)….the poorest of which is CCT, and finished with my fav….a big kiss of cyclopentasiloxane (and two other silicone friends). I did sub in the rice starch, and was able to achieve a nominal enhancement over the arrowroot.
I will make the deo cream later today using MM in place of the behenyl, and get it out to the test groups this weekend.
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Matt @chemicalmatt , my add in fatty alcohol level is only 1.15% to get the viscosity I want (CP at 1.8%). So not much to hold things back. Slippery stuff above 17%.
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For those following along at home, an update. (Please understand all that I will say falls under the auspices of ‘formula specific’.) So, I made the same formula, subbing the behenyl alcohol with the same amount of Myristyl Myristate. As I was chasing a dry application and powdery after feel (from a cream), it was a ‘no contest’, clear winner. Myristyl Myristate kicked the arsh of Behenyl in making a dry finish, quicker absorbing feeling deo cream.
(Note: This ingredient only made up 1.15% of the formula yet had a palpable result change.)
I did however lose a noticeable amount of viscosity, so will have to increase the MM to match the desired viscosity.
Sidebar: Per a recommendation from Matt, I switched from Arrowroot to Rice Starch, and there was a detectable enhancement of the haptics.
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A lot of the information I get, is sent directly to me…and some of this material is absolute pearls of wisdom from genius minds. I would like to share the ramblings of one such genius:
My guess (I don’t know!) would be that behenyl results in a drier feeling product and MM in a softer one which probably absorbs better (with the end result being drier because no longer there, if you know what I mean).
From a logical point of view: 165 might play better with MM with regard to forming a lamellar network. 165 tends to weaken or even destroy the lamellar network of the Montanovs and MM alongside the laurates might actually fix that issue. At least hypothetically…
On the other hand, lauryl laurate is fairly similar to MM and including both might be redundant. Maybe just let it be and play with some other ingredients if you’re not happy with the dryness of the outcome? I doubt that adding a wax ester or a fatty alcohol will counteract the non-dry feeling of slip and slide ingredients. Quite the opposite; they might actually disturb their fast resorption which, as stated in the beginning, would be another form of dry feeling. Cut down on occlusive lipids, reduce overall lipid load and get the lost viscosity back by increasing starches and gelling agents.
If only my mind thought like this….what I could accomplish. Thank You (Danke Danke schoen Danke vielmal Danke/merci) -
I would like to thank all the genius minds that have contributed to this project, you know who you are! Sometimes it takes a village, to make something special. I have a good sense on how to create texture/haptics…but there are so many other aspects!!!
Vitaly, you have simply been brilliant in making the product function! Aloha.
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@Graillotion My pleasure
It is an interesting and exciting journey!
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