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Polyquaternium-10 - when to add to formula?
When making a shampoo, when is the ideal stage to add PQ10? Is it best to mix into the water and THEN add surfactants or to add surfactants to water and THEN add PQ10?
Thanks.
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9 Replies
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I’ve found adding it to water before the surfactants most effective.
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@Perry thanks for the tip!
Just tried adding some sodium cocoyl isethionate powder to a mixture of PQ10, water, and 100x aloe powder and I instantly got an extremely thick clump of something that formed around the mixing blade! Very hard to get off! Not sure if it was the SCI or the PQ10 but I seem to have caused some
sort of reaction there that is not allowing something to dissolve. Any thoughts? -
Ah sorry, I remembered it backwards. PQ 10 after surfactants. See this article for an explanation why. Basically what you have is PQ 10 is a cationic and it needs micelles to already be formed to prevent that clumping.
However, what you might do is pre-mix the PQ10 in water then add that solution to the surfactant solution. That way the powder disperses more easily.
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So I made another batch, this time i divided up the water into two parts and mixed one part with pq10 and the other with sci. Combined the sci+water with the rest of the surfactants and then added the pq10+water to that. Did most of this at around 70 C. Seemed to work good, everything is nicely dissolved.
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Excellent!
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Used Jaguar C-13 C-17 (@0.3% total) in the formulation. In side vessel the mixing with water leads to lumps formation which are difficult to break even when transferred into main mixer with bottom homogenizer (2500 rpm). Any lead to sort out this issue. Thanks,
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@AMS You need to sprinkle Jaguar into the vortex, and mix at high speed till the polymer is fully incorprated; you could alternatively add some base -like sodium hydroxide- to speed up hydration (also, check that no acidic material has been added before guar gum).
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Also, you might try adding it to water with a temperature lower than room temp.
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Actually @GeorgeBenson & @AMS, Perry had it right the first time and…err..the third time(I dunno…I lost count here). ALWAYS add PQ-10 or cationic guar or any cellulosic to COLD (RT) water first, use high-speed mixing to hydrate, then proceed only when that is 100% accomplished. The article mentions “adding to surfactant systems” in the global sense, not the order of addition sense. It also fails to mention critical elements of dilution-deposition activity with these cationic polymers. Add an amphoteric surfactant to the batch immediately after the cationic gum hydrates, then a nonionic and the anionic last. This hydrotrope/cationic matrix complexes with the anionic vesicle aiding polymer deposition. MINIMIZE or AVOID salt addition, why we use low-salt amhoterics instead of CAPB or a sultaine. Salt intereferes with deposition. If using a low MW PQ-10 like the 400 series, pair with a high MW dimethicone (350 cst minimum). Counter-intuitive but that’s what works.
As for the alkali-gel trick (hack?) with guar HPTC mentioned by @ketchito
allow a good 30 minutes high-speed mixing to pass before adding and don’t add much. This hack also works for pure guar and HP guars too. Just make sure not to use sodium borate or…well…you’ll find out why. Think rubber ball.
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