-
Xylitol in Natural Toothpaste
Hi everyone!
If there is a professional able and willing to please look into this and help me with the following as my toothpaste is on the shelves in two shops. ???? (This is just fun and a lovely hobby) ????????????.Something in my toothpaste causes a slight pain or sensitivity in my molar. (I suspect) A friend that used 100% xylitol toothpaste stopped using the toothpaste because it caused her pain or sensitivity too, so I am wondering about the amount being used, WHERE it comes from (birch/ corn or whatever) or if there is something else in my formula that can cause this.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
My natural toothpaste consists of 🙂
64 Calcium (Really good stuff, certificate included)
7g Bicarb
38 Xylitol (propably from China)
7 bentonite (Am going to omit because of the aluminium in future)
1.5g Green tea
1.2g Goldenseal -
31 Replies
-
Hey there,I think you have too much Xylitol?? and what type and where as there are many sources and the quality changes a lot. The birchwood tree is suppose to be the best source.Bicarb can be an irritant.Hope this helps!! Cheers Catherine -
hey beautiful Cath
thank you again
My formula is definitely not a professional formula… Some toothpastes in USA Consist of only clay! Another one consist of hundred percent xylitol. Like you say, it really is the source that is important it seems. ????
I’m trying to find out if the xylitol comes from corn or something other than birch trees and does it have the same effect on our teeth??? do you dental Association is around the world in doors xylitol which is from corn and other plants or not lol?The way I see it is that’s my options are:
1. put something else in the formula to minimise the amount of xylitol. xylitol is very expensive as it is because it does come from China and is probably not the best source…. Euretha…something…??2. something else that popped into my mind is to add some rice flour to the toothpaste. Good lord, I saw this in another toothpaste and I thought that starches were bad for your teeth… ????????
3. Maybe look for something other than bicarb to be gently polish the teeth then, OR use less than 7%?
4. The clay is probably also not aluminium free.Is there anywhere that I can read on about the amount of xylitol which is good for you? Any sources out there which anyone can recommend? I normally look at pub med etc.
-
IMHO what’s more important than the actual source of xylitol is the way hemicellulose is turned into xylose and then xylitol.There are mainly two routes which both start from hemicellulose either using corn cobs or a by-product from cellulose production (i.e. from wood treatment, most often birch and beech). Corn cobs are more frequently used in the USA, wood wastes are the common source in Europe.The first synthetic route is the older, fully synthetic one where xylose is obtained by acid hydrolysis followed by reduction using hydrogen gas and a catalyst. The more recent second strategy involves microbial fermentation for both steps. Notable, xylitol may also be obtained by each one synthetic and one natural (or vice versa) conversion step.Xylitol is an upcycled waste product from dirt cheep material usually used for soil amendments and the like which has now become a highly regarded sugar substitute from renewable resources. In the beginning, small scale (synthetic) manufacturing caused high prices, nowadays it’s maybe a mix of using slower fermentation and high demand/fame/marketability.Besides oral health benefits, no insulin secretion and only 40% calories compared to sugar, xylitol is as natural as many other artificial sweeteners and sugar substitutes but has the big advantage that it’s obtained from trash and doesn’t require too much additional cleaning and refining. -
hi @Pharma !
No wonder that I got so confused with whether it is synthetic or natural. From what you are saying I deduce that it does not matter where it comes from, but the process that has been used to manufacture it.
Now I can probably ask the supplier which of the two/ or three methods apply to their xylitol? Right…? . Gosh, it’s not like I can ask them “is your xylitol approved by dental associations?! “lol…. hmmmm. present I’ve only been asking them where it comes from, China probably…Just to put my mind at ease, It would not be wrong to make a Toothpaste of 98% xylitol then if it’s so good for our teeth right? In South Africa there is a brand called “apothecary”, With essential oil and some Olive oil. yummy.
-
I don’t see any benefit in a 98% xylitol base toothpaste. Xylitol works to replace sugar and to reduce biofilm formation on enamel already at lower levels. Xylitol at high % or rather in water-free products shows a nice feature: if it dissolves in water, it cools down and gives a ‘freshness’ kick (best combined with peppermint EO). A good toothpaste should do more than that.A problem with corn cobs is that several countries grow GMO maize especially for feed & technical applications (e.g. cosmetics). Trees (at least the ones used for xylitol production) are never genetically modified. Hence, buying xylitol derived from trees will automatically ‘proof’ that you don’t sell GMO whereas traceability of xylite derived from corn cobs will be quite difficult (there’s likely not enough maize DNA in the final product to double-check for absence of GMO).On the other hand, many organisms/enzymes used for syntheses by fermentation employ GMO microbes or biotechnologically modified ones. This is usually okay because, as said, there is virtually no genetic material left in the product and the introduced genes aren’t of any concern (they are ‘natural’ and ‘common’). BTW many such modifications are usually indistinct
between genetical and biotechnological modification strategies and you’ll have a hard time finding out whether or not modified materials were used during production (that is, if they even used microbes/enzymes).Genetic modifications may or may not be approved by consumers… On the bright side, most consumers aren’t bright enough to know that much and will, at best, raise concerns with regard to potentially modified resources (e.g. corn) = go with birch, people love birch! :smiley:Apart from that, THIS article might be interesting. Sure, a bit overkill but still some nice insights (including which company/country produces xylitol from which resource). Most striking for me was that China uses corn cobs… -
devo2 said:but the process that has been used to manufacture it.
Now I can probably ask the supplier which of the two/ or three methods apply to their xylitol? Right…? . Gosh, it’s not like I can ask them “is your xylitol approved by dental associations?! “lol…. hmmmm. present I’ve only been asking them where it comes from, China probably…You can e-mail the manufacturers and ask if they have whatever certifications you want or not? Chinese can speak English too.
For crying out loud, why would you have to mention China in all posts. -
Pattsi said:…
For crying out loud, why would you have to mention China in all posts.Because she doesn’t know that many chemicals and most active pharmaceutical ingredients on this planet are actually manufactured in China?
-
hi all
Thank you, It is sold by third party companies and geting any response from them is virtually non-existent.
@Pharma as usual you are extremely helpful. I will read the article. ????????????????????????????I guess I would need to understand now, if using microbes/enzymes in the “fermentation process” (am I correct in saying this?) And GMO Is used in as manufacturing stage does it have the benefits to teeth that Birch trees were xylitol made without GMO has?
Birch tree Xyliyol is virtually non-existent here…maybe I will find some answers in the PDF. Love and light.
-
How you obtain/synthesise xylitol doesn’t matter. In the end, it’s always the absolutely same molecule called ‘xylitol’. What can be different are the residues and contaminants but with a reliable/responsible manufacturer this isn’t of any concern.
-
Gawsh, now she is confused.
I was thinkin of using erythritol ……? To end all this confusion. I use a LOT of it in my formula, about 38%!!! If you had a choice, which one would you use @Pharma ? Erythritol or xylitol (If you did not have birch xylitol).
I’m gonna reduce the sweetener. I guess I must. (Is there a max to use?)
I could reduce the bicarb to 4% too!!! To try to stop the tooth pain or sensitivity, but from what it seems is that conventional toothpastes just mask the pain with glycerine, yet it prevents remineralization.Pharma, have you seen my packaging? Trying to go plastic free
)) It’s such a F.u.N hobby. Just does not go off either as it’s an oil base.https://www.faithful-to-nature.co.za/troo-brand
(At the bottom are my products)
-
how fine is your calcium carbonate? (I’m assuming you’re using that and not metallic calcium)if it’s too coarse, that could easily cause pain and sensitivity -
For oral care, always xylitol, no matter the origin (and, since birch sugar is an ‘official’ synonym, call it birch sugar no matter the origin
).Xylitol for oral care isn’t just used because it’s sweet but for the whole rest tough it’s sweeter than erythritol. The only upper limit is what you can pack into your jars :smiley: .If you want something against pain and dentine sensitivity, add clover oil, potassium bicarbonate instead of sodium bicarbonate, and/or arginine/calcium carbonate (Pro-Argin Technology by Colgate & Elmex uses 8% arginine). HERE some more reading.@Bill_Toge: Bicarb refers to sodium bicarbonate, a common ingredient in toothpaste. It’s not alkaline but still neutralises acids and is a very mild abrasive. Darn, I just had a look at the LOI, you’re right, she lists ‘elemental calcium’! That can’t be right because calcium immediately reacts with water. On the bright side, that should take care of all the plaque and rotten teeth within seconds, especially if you smoke a cigarette whilst brushing your teeth… -
@Pharma joking aside, when I used to work for a manufacturer of white-label toothpaste they used several different grades of abrasive silica; the coarsest one was used for whitening toothpaste, the finest one was used for children’s toothpaste, and the one in between was used for all other kinds of toothpaste
-
That’s a valid remark regarding calcium carbonate, I will double check, but I know it’s from a reputable source which supplies this for toothpaste manufacturing. I think Pharma or somebody else on this group gave me the name of this manufacturer After I went through 30 manufacturers looking for food grade calcium…
That’s a great tip @Pharma, I will have to add that to my toothpaste. glad I don’t have to re-do the whole thing again, next time I send the labels to print I will add that it’s normal calcium carbonate as well as birch sugar
Really thank you for being so helpful, if you need any help with digital marketing, I would not mind giving you tips on all the basics and then choices If you’d like to go further.
All the best
-
I do not know if there is a correlation here, last year I was making a childrens toothpaste with more xylitol than I usually use and I started getting mouth ulcers. Then I heard about some other people around the world that used natural toothpaste and a lot of xylitol in their formula!! and also having problems with wobbly teeth and ulcers.Could this be a co-incidence? Has anyone had any problems whilst using xylitol?From the very first time I used it I was sternly told that it had to come from the birchwood tree! Why would they say that?? I didn’t really take much notice but now I think about it maybe there is a correlation??Thoughts??
-
id love to also understand / learn more about this….
-
Pharma said:For oral care, always xylitol, no matter the origin (and, since birch sugar is an ‘official’ synonym, call it birch sugar no matter the origin ).Xylitol for oral care isn’t just used because it’s sweet but for the whole rest tough it’s sweeter than erythritol. The only upper limit is what you can pack into your jars :smiley: .If you want something against pain and dentine sensitivity, add clover oil, potassium bicarbonate instead of sodium bicarbonate, and/or arginine/calcium carbonate (Pro-Argin Technology by Colgate & Elmex uses 8% arginine). HERE some more reading.
@Pharma , would you use a toothpaste with any xylitol? I kinda would like to have a toothpaste for myself too, to remineralize my chapped teeth. i do appreciate the restructuring of the bame though! ???? Clever
-
Yes, I would, no hesitation. BTW I like xylitol.
-
Sorry… my sentence above is ineligible ????.
It looks like ill be going down the same route as I did with finding calcium carbonate. ???? None of the companies that I contacted stock this. I know that youve helped me so much. Do you have any conpanies in mind that I can perhaps ask?
-
Depending on the regulations within the manufacturing/selling country, food grade xylitol (or calcium carbonate for that matter too) may be as good or even better than cosmetic grade. IIRC @Perry mentioned that the food supplement market in the USA is so poorly regulated that he does trust cosmetic grade more than food grade although, in theory, food grade is of higher quality. It certainly depends on the product you buy, is it easy & worth adulterating or not? Xylitol is not cheap but not pricey enough and in crystalline (not finely ground) form not that easy to water down with cheaper ingredients without the consumer noticing. You might get sugar instead of xylitol if you buy from the wrong people… simply dissolve some in water: if it gets cold, it’s quite likely xylitol. If it also tastes sweet without any flavour, then it is most likely xylitol. You may also use solubility: 200 g in 100 ml water and slightly above 1.2 g in 96% ethanol. BTW it should be colourless. Sure, it doesn’t necessarily give you enough information about contamination (for example with heavy metals) and proper documentation papers (i.e. certificates of analysis and SDS) may not be obtained that easily for food grades should you require those.Me, I frequently use food grade stuff for my personal DIY projects without any concerns. At the pharmacy I’m usually bound to a very limited assortment of locally registered pharmaceutical grade raw materials.
-
Aaagh! I see! You took all your time in explaining this to me! Although, very helpful and thank you very much. What I meant is that the following ingredients I cannot find in Cape Town South Africa.
clover oil (this is clove oil right? The lovely essential oil which should be used max 0.6% )
potassium bicarbonate (no one has this ????)
arginine (Is this a bicarbonate? An amino acid? wow!no one has this either?) -
Uppss…- Err, yes, clove, not clover. Sorry for the misspelling. We call these two plants by completely different names (Nägeli and Chlee, respectively) and late at night… Clove EO has a quite distinctive smell but works great for toothache.- Potassium carbonate is maybe only available as pharmaceutical grade or chemical raw material. Super unlikely to find a cosmetic grade because, I reckon, nobody use it in cosmetics.- Arginine is an amino acid and, as free base, a quite alkaline substance too (you could for example use it instead of soda lye to neutralise carbomers or neutralise acids on the teeth after eating). Nowadays, it’s +/- readily available as free base cosmetic grade or ‘raw chemical’. Food grade is way more common (found in body-building shops) but they usually sell it in salt form such as HCl, alpha-ketoglutarate, or malate. These salts will not cut it because they are neutral, very water soluble, and will likely not work regarding dentin, too.Can you order from abroad or have a ‘contact in China’ (they usually ship worldwide)? As said, Chinese products aren’t always bad. They produce an awful lot of chemicals for the rest of the globe simply because they can do it for a fraction of $$ the rest of us could. Hence, every mayor pharma company buys their APIs there… and so, some key antibiotics and other pharmaceuticals are produces solely in China (India would be second place but has more quality & adulteration issues).
-
hi there Pharma
No I understand that chemicals come from China. As you can see I’m such a naturalist, that when I see photographs of Chinese lakes bubbling green and I think of the pollution I just cringe
, besides, I help to clean our Rivers, polluted with plastic, polystyrene and chemicals… just saying.I’ve gone through almost 10 companies now, will try and find someone in China. Thank you for the tip on not using the bodybuilding products. I instinctively did not trust that!
thanks for the tip on products from India!So what I have to look for is just called Arginine? Not L-Arginine or arginine bicarbonate?
Aaaaaghhhh, fun and games.Do you make toothpaste?
-
Dr Catherine Pratt said:I do not know if there is a correlation here, last year I was making a childrens toothpaste with more xylitol than I usually use and I started getting mouth ulcers. Then I heard about some other people around the world that used natural toothpaste and a lot of xylitol in their formula!! and also having problems with wobbly teeth and ulcers.Could this be a co-incidence? Has anyone had any problems whilst using xylitol?From the very first time I used it I was sternly told that it had to come from the birchwood tree! Why would they say that?? I didn’t really take much notice but now I think about it maybe there is a correlation??Thoughts??
Xylitol in toothpaste has been associated with mouth sores, but I’m not sure why. As far as I know, there aren’t any studies that explored that side effect.
-
L-Arginine would be perfect, it’s the form which naturally occurs. Given that only very few pure amino acids are sold as racemates (synthetic mixture of L- and D-), I don’t explicitly add the L- in front of amino acids because it’s, in most cases, self-evident that this is the form we’re talking about .Regarding arginine bicarbonate, that’s also a salt… but if you look at toothpaste labels and scientific literature, arginine and arginine bicarbonate are equally used. From a safety-point of view, bicarbonate will be more gentle. Now that I think about it: I’m not even fully convinced that some brands truly use arginine free base as stated on the label but rather bicarbonate. Arginine free base is one of the strongest bases mother nature has invented. You’d have to measure pH of your product and try out first, before you sell it! Try finding some more data on which form to use would be what I’d do… maybe contact one of the big brands and ask what they really add?Maybe the bodybuilding versions would work too, I honestly don’t know. Though there is zip evidence/publication but just reasons why these forms are likely less active.Nope, I don’t make toothpastes, I simply know a bit more than what I’ve officially studied .
Log in to reply.