Conditioner too thick problem

Formulating

Conditioner too thick problem

Posted by vhogiono on January 14, 2021 at 8:06 am

Hi, I need your advice on making my conditioner less thicker. My formula is:

A To 100 Water
A 0.5 Hydroxyethyl cellulose
A q.s Potassium Hydroxide (to bring pH above 7 and thicken the HEC)

B 2.0 Behentrimonium Chloride
B 5.0 Cetearyl Alcohol
B 2.0 Shea Butter

C 5.0 Polyquaternium-7
C 1.0 Dipropylene Glycol
C 0.6 Fragrance oil
C 0.5 DMDM Hydantoin
C 0.5 Potassium Sorbate

D q.s pH adjuster (to 4.0-4.5)

The result is very thick. It is really difficult to pour into the bottle. Even when I flipped the bottle and wait for a day, it won’t go down. I tried the pump bottle as well, and the pump won’t work, because the consistency is too thick, it won’t fill the gap/hole where the parts has been taken out by the pump. I even added Dipropylene glycol hoping for the thinning effect, but it won’t work either. I’m looking for more like butter consistency which can be pumped from bottle.

1. Should I remove Hydroxyethyl cellulose? I’m afraid it will affect stability as this is the only rheology modifier in my formula. (Actually i tried remove this already, but its still too thick).

2. How do you guys bottle a conditioner? I looked at some youtube videos, they pour it while it is molten. But with this method I cannot adjust the pH and give the heat-sensitive ingredients. (because adjusting pH must wait till 25C room temperature).

3. Do any of you ever use PPG20 methyl glucose ether? Is this good for conditioner?

Thank you guys, I really have no luck in making conditioner. I really feel there’s something wrong that I did not notice until now. Sorry for the long and many questions I have.

Warm regards,
Vincent

OldPerry replied 4 years, 1 month ago 5 Members · 11 Replies
11 Replies

Benz3ne

Member
January 14, 2021 at 8:29 am

What viscosity hydroxyethyl cellulose have you got? There are a variety of viscosities available for it, same goes for hydroxypropyl methylcellulose. Find that bit out as it’s easy to change it out or reduce as necessary.
crillz

Member
January 14, 2021 at 9:28 am

Just take a percent or 2 of the cetearyl alcohol out?
vhogiono

Member
January 14, 2021 at 5:37 pm

@Benz3ne thank you. Mine is Natrosol HBR 250. I have tried to remove this completely but still it is too thick.
@crillz according theory, behentrimonium chloride is cationic which mean it can irritate quite easily. and cetearyl alcohol suppose to counter that irritancy. anyway i will try to make it 1-2% then.

Thanks guys
Abdullah

Entrepreneur
January 15, 2021 at 6:55 am

%3 Cetearyl Alcohol
Remove shea butter

You are applying it to hair not scalp and then it is rinsed. So don’t wory about irritation.
vhogiono

Member
January 16, 2021 at 9:39 am

@Abdullah Thank you!, yes I tried to make the cetearyl alcohol into 2% only and remove shea butter. It feels less thick.

Now I’m doing the freeze-thaw cycle for stability testing. Usually on cycle 2-3 the water always separates. Hope this time it works, so I can have a simple and stable conditioner formula.

Will update you guys if the formula works and stable
crillz

Member
January 17, 2021 at 2:57 am

I norm work on 3 percent cetearyl
vhogiono

Member
January 19, 2021 at 9:10 am

@crillz I tried 2% cetearyl and it seems much better for the thickness. Do you have any idea which is better between cetearyl and cetyl alcohol for conditioner?
crillz

Member
January 22, 2021 at 5:34 am

vhogiono said:

@crillz I tried 2% cetearyl and it seems much better for the thickness. Do you have any idea which is better between cetearyl and cetyl alcohol for conditioner?

Not sure but we use 3% cetyl and it’s fine.
OldPerry

Professional Chemist / Formulator
January 22, 2021 at 4:36 pm

5% Polyquat 7!!? Woah! Probably don’t need more than 1%

But this would be a great opportunity to do a knockout experiment.
vhogiono

Member
January 23, 2021 at 1:20 pm

@Perry Actually I’m following a free recipe from where I studied at in IPCS which i believe it have been tested. (Thats why it is published for all).

I do not change the formula too much, because I’m afraid it won’t function as it supposed to.

But I’m suspecting there is a misunderstanding here (Maybe I got it wrong). Usually at IPCS they always write the formula using trademark. For this recipe, they just write it 5% polyquarternium-7.

After I do little research, it seems the most commonly available polyquarternium-7 is in liquid form (which the active content is only around 9%). (My polyquat-7 in my lab is also liquid).
In this case, if we add 5% of this polyquat-7, it means we only add an active content of 0.45% which is in your range (not more than 1%).

What do you think? I never play with other polyquat (not even polyquat-10) because of the availability in my region.

Thanks so much Perry
OldPerry

Professional Chemist / Formulator
January 23, 2021 at 8:29 pm

@vhogiono - Yes, that would make more sense. 0.45% “active” Polyquaternium 7 is much more reasonable than 5% “active” PQ7