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Shampoo Lather
Looking to increase the lather on my shampoo, any suggestions with the current surfactants I’m using? It does ok but would like more foaming action.
Water 51% Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate 6.25% Caprylyl Capryl Glucoside 6.25% Coco Glucoside 16.25% Decyl Glucoside 27.75% Glycerin 10%
Apple Cider Vinaegar: 10% -
18 Replies
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@ajw000 You actually have a very high content of surfactants in there. I’d start to check for the pH (you might need to reduce your Apple Cider Vinegar quite some)…try it to be above 5 (some anionics foame better at higher pH). You can include a chelator, since the isethionate can be impaired by water hardness. Also, you definitely need to reduce your Glycerin, since it depress foam at some point, and being a very water soluble molecule, it’d tend to go away with water rather than doing anything to your skin/hain in a rinse-off system. If you want even more foam, I’d replace a couple of glucosides, but I think you can improve foam without doing that.
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@ketchito, thank you for the feedback! Concerning ph, hair has a normal ph of 4.5-5.5? I was trying to keep it close to that, but need a new ph meter to be sure.
For a natural chelating agent, could I use Citric Acid?
Are you saying to ditch isethionate completely? It’s difficult to dissolve it without glycerin anyways.. If I try to disperse in surfactants it turns into a bubble fest.
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@ajw000 It’s ok to have a pH a bit higher than that of the skin…but just a bit. It helps anionic surfactants to perform better.
You could use Sodium citrate as a chelator (just keep in mind that it’s actually a weak one), or use Citric acid and then add NaOH.
You don’t need to replace completely the Isethionate. Actually, I remember it’s stable in a pH range of 6-8, else it’d hydrolyze, and maybe that’s what’s happening, so you definitely need to raise you pH a bit.
Try this, and if the gain is not too much, you could replace a bit for another anionic that foams better, or even adding a zwitterionic like Cocamidopropylbetaine.
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ketchito said:@ajw000 It’s ok to have a pH a bit higher than that of the skin…but just a bit. It helps anionic surfactants to perform better.
You could use Sodium citrate as a chelator (just keep in mind that it’s actually a weak one), or use Citric acid and then add NaOH.
You don’t need to replace completely the Isethionate. Actually, I remember it’s stable in a pH range of 6-8, else it’d hydrolyze, and maybe that’s what’s happening, so you definitely need to raise you pH a bit.
Try this, and if the gain is not too much, you could replace a bit for another anionic that foams better, or even adding a zwitterionic like Cocamidopropylbetaine.
Cocamidopropyl betaine is great. I use it in all my shampoo bars to get a good lather and seems to be pretty gentle on skin too.
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I will try lowering the apple cider, and look for other ways to increase the ph level naturally, then report findings. I’m aiming for a 100% natural formula, so cocamidopropyl betaine is out unfortunately, though I have heard good things as well.
Thanks!
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@ajw000 This is easier than you think: DELETE THE GLYCERINE! You have plenty surfactants in this and you will notice a dramatic improvement in foam. As I have stated so many times in this forum: friends, don’t let friends add glycerine to shampoos and body washes. All it does is kill foam and viscosity before it rinses down your drain to oblivion.
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I think it will work alot better without the glycerine..
Or 1-2% is fine -
@chemicalmatt Thank you for the info! I’m up for reducing/removing glycerin from the formula. Can you suggest how to better dissolve the SCI in the solution? when I try to dissolve in surfactants it turns into a bubbly mess, and with too little agitation there are visible flakes left. Currently that is what I had been using Glycerin for.
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Also, I am using Menthol crystals and Xanthan gum, which I dissolved in glycerin.. What else would I dissolve them in?
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Dropped Glycerin to 2% (enough to dissolve the xanthan and menthol crystals) and sliced the apple cider vinegar in half. Lather is much better! Thanks for the help!
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The only use for vinegar in a shampoo is when the shampoo is common soap and the hair as a result is clagged up in hard water deposits. Vinegar is used as a rinse. This was the way before surfactants were invented. Get rid of it. Besides, it stinks.
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@Belassi - There is one other use. Some consumers find it a compelling marketing story.
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In addition to marketing, it also leaves a silky after feel on hair.
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@ajw000 - In the testing I did with the ingredient on hair tresses, I never saw that effect.
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Following up on this, I have been able to completely remove Glycerin and dissolve the xanthan and Menthol in the oil.
@ketchito you mentioned I have a very high surfactant %. What would the suggested % be for a shampoo?
Thanks everyone!
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@ajw000 If I did my calculations correclty, your surfactant active matter content (expressed as 100% concentration of each surfactant) is around 30%, which is way too high. For a shampoo, it’s usually between 12-14% (very generaly speaking).
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@ketchito Can you explain a little more how “surfactant active matter content (expressed as 100% concentration of each surfactant)” is calculated? is that just the % of surfactants of the total formula?
Since that original post I have adjusted the % amounts here are the new ones, I’m guessing they are still too high..?
52.05% Water
2.31% Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate 2.31% Caprylyl Capryl Glucoside 10.61% Coco Glucoside 19.84% Decyl Glucoside 3.69 Oils (To help disperse Xanthan)
4.61% Apple Cider Vinaegar
4.58% Preservative, Xanthan, Fragrance -
@ajw000 For instance, even though you added 10.61% of Coco Glucoside, that material comes commercially as a 50% solution, so you’d need to calculate the real level of Coco Glucoside you are putting to the formula, which is 10.61*0.5 = 5.305%. This should be done for all surfactants (check the their technical sheets), and the sum will be your real surfactant content in your formula.
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