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Behenyl Alcohol?
Would there be a benefit in using Behenyl alcohol over other common fatty alcohols or thickeners like cetyl alcohol?
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22 Replies
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Yes, behenyl gives more powdery and dry feel than cetyl.
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I agree! Cetyl Esters (in my opinion) also feels better and drier than Cetyl A. MM is also a choice…for dry and powdery.
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ngarayeva001 said:Yes, behenyl gives more powdery and dry feel than cetyl.
Ok that makes sence, so if used in a lotion youd get a possibly drier result? Verse maybe the lotion feeling “sticky”?
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Because of its higher melting point, it’s less oil-like and more wax-like (without being really waxy).It can have other benefits (or drawbacks) as well but these depend on the overall formulation. -
Someone with dry skin might like cetyl alcohol better. I like both actually. It really depends on the formula.
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@ngarayeva001 Thank you. Theres a moisturizer I own that I love and it had behenyl alcohol. I can see that many people who have reviewed it do not feel its moisturizing enough so I was looking at it as a starter formula and thought maybe using cetyl would help ot to be more moisturizing but wasnt sure as Ive never worked with behenyl.
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@PeaceLoveNaturals I run a comparison test of different thickeners yesterday (received a new material and wanted to see how it compares with what I have). Cetyl and Behenyl alcohol contribute to similar rheology. 3% is enough to create viscous cream (it won’t spill if you turn the beaker quickly). It takes them about a day to gain full viscosity and they are generally similar except for behenyl giving drier feel. Behenyl also soaps a little more which is easy to solve by adding dimethicone.
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@ngarayeva001thank you thats very helpful. I think I will go ahead and try cetyl for now.
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I really struggled through this topic for a while…and Pharma really helped me through it. If you have cetyl esters on hand, try your formula with a little of that as well…. I discovered (MY) sweet spot was 2 parts cetyl esters to 1.2 parts cetyl Alcohol. This gave me the thickening I needed for the 165 emulsifier, and the feel I wanted.
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I’ve been trying out cetyl alcohol, behenyl alcohol and cetyl palmitate as well. Behenyl alcohol was drying on my skin, even at 0.3% (my skin is very particular though). This was versus an otherwise identical formulation which is highly moisturising. I had high hopes for cetyl palmitate but the matte/dry residue it leaves is not very comforting. This is more psychological rather than physical though I think. Cetyl alcohol leaves a much more comforting, skin-like residue. So after all that, it was the non-fancy, common cetyl alcohol that won out.
I wondered if it’s the long chain length of behenyl alcohol that makes it so drying on me. Perhaps it adheres too well to the oils in my skin and thus rinses them off too much when I wash my hands…
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helenhelen said:….
I wondered if it’s the long chain length of behenyl alcohol that makes it so drying on me. Perhaps it adheres too well to the oils in my skin and thus rinses them off too much when I wash my hands…It’s the higher melting point which turns it waxy and hence the drier feeling compared to something which is malleable at skin temperature.Personally, I like the powdery/silky afterfeel of cetyl palmitate more than the ‘oilier’ touch of cetyl alcohol. Maybe I should give behenyl alcohol a try?Could this preference be a gender thing (we’re 2:2 and it coincides with gender)? 🙂 -
Just personal preference…hehehe… The world would only need one lotion….if we all liked the same thing.
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Pharma said:helenhelen said:….
I wondered if it’s the long chain length of behenyl alcohol that makes it so drying on me. Perhaps it adheres too well to the oils in my skin and thus rinses them off too much when I wash my hands…It’s the higher melting point which turns it waxy and hence the drier feeling compared to something which is malleable at skin temperature.Personally, I like the powdery/silky afterfeel of cetyl palmitate more than the ‘oilier’ touch of cetyl alcohol. Maybe I should give behenyl alcohol a try?Could this preference be a gender thing (we’re 2:2 and it coincides with gender)? 🙂Yes it’s probably a gender thing. Literally any moisturiser turns into an oil slick on my husband’s hands and he doesn’t feel any difference between formulations.. they all just feel greasy to him. Whereas I need to feel a protective, emollient (but not slick) layer on my skin at all times otherwise I can’t stop thinking about all the moisture that is evaporating off and my skin shrivelling as every minute goes by.
It wasn’t just the dry feel of behenyl alcohol that disturbed me. It literally dried my skin out to the point of soreness, with lasting roughness and cracks. Even at that tiny amount.
BTW I can’t tell who’s male and who’s female on this forum! It’s impossible to tell! When I am reading people’s posts, I see them in my head as genderless beings.
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helenhelen said:Pharma said:helenhelen said:….
I wondered if it’s the long chain length of behenyl alcohol that makes it so drying on me. Perhaps it adheres too well to the oils in my skin and thus rinses them off too much when I wash my hands…It’s the higher melting point which turns it waxy and hence the drier feeling compared to something which is malleable at skin temperature.Personally, I like the powdery/silky afterfeel of cetyl palmitate more than the ‘oilier’ touch of cetyl alcohol. Maybe I should give behenyl alcohol a try?Could this preference be a gender thing (we’re 2:2 and it coincides with gender)? 🙂Whereas I need to feel a protective, emollient (but not slick) layer on my skin at all times otherwise I can’t stop thinking about all the moisture that is evaporating off and my skin shrivelling as every minute goes by.
… If you want that…have your tried FloraTech’s Floraesters K-20W® Jojoba. It does a fabulous job of that… Took my product to a whole new level. (Don’t think it will work in cold formulations, as it does not go into solution before water phase hits 140F. Premix with equal parts glycerin.) I use 2% and 2%. It also gives some level of wash-off protection at the 2% rate. It wasn’t till I added that…that I could still feel the effect of the lotion I put on before bed….the next morning. Hehehe…..you’ll definitely sell less lotion.
(Because reapplication intervals are greatly lengthened.) -
Graillotion said:… If you want that…have your tried FloraTech’s Floraesters K-20W® Jojoba. It does a fabulous job of that… Took my product to a whole new level. (Don’t think it will work in cold formulations, as it does not go into solution before water phase hits 140F. Premix with equal parts glycerin.) I use 2% and 2%. It also gives some level of wash-off protection at the 2% rate. It wasn’t till I added that…that I could still feel the effect of the lotion I put on before bed….the next morning. Hehehe…..you’ll definitely sell less lotion. (Because reapplication intervals are greatly lengthened.)
Thanks for the tip. I tried FloraTech’s Floraesters K-20W® Jojoba and it made my formulation less moisturising. But maybe I made the mistake of treating it as an “oil” instead of as a humectant. I replaced some oil with it, but maybe I should have replaced some glycerin instead.
I also wasn’t keen on the jojoba smell. It comes out when a product has no added fragrance. I liked the cushion and smoothing of another FloraTech product - Floraesters 20, but again, the jojoba smell came out too much.
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I tested cetyl alcohol, cetyl palmitate, behenyl alcohol and myristyl myristate each at 3% in the same base (10% almond oil 3% Arlacel 165, water qs). Actually I found that cetyl palmitate gives the most rich and occlusive feel. Then it’s MM, then cetyl alcohol and behenyl goes in the end (the most dry and powdery. And the viscosity goes in the opposite direction: cetyl palmitate is the less viscous. It’s a matter of personal preference and my friend from the industry pointed out that my scales have only two decimal points so my test is less scientific that I would want it to be (just a disclaimer in case you try to repeat my experiment). I concluded that I won’t use cetyl palmitate as a rheology modifier but to add richness (more occlusive feel) to the product. Probably something like 2-3% of cetyl alcohol + 1.5% of cetyl palmitate.
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helenhelen said:
Thanks for the tip. I tried FloraTech’s Floraesters K-20W® Jojoba and it made my formulation less moisturising. But maybe I made the mistake of treating it as an “oil” instead of as a humectant. I replaced some oil with it, but maybe I should have replaced some glycerin instead.
I also wasn’t keen on the jojoba smell. It comes out when a product has no added fragrance. I liked the cushion and smoothing of another FloraTech product - Floraesters 20, but again, the jojoba smell came out too much.
As always…. ingredients will react differently with different formulas. I am overkill on humectants in my formula.
I did not notice any smell, in fact I considered the K-20…ordorless?I use unrefined cupuacu butter in the formula, and that is the only scent that carries through.
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@Pharma there is a popular new brand that made this very simple moisturizer. It honestly is not the most moisturizing but I live in a very humid climate so it seems to work well for me. I also have tried other moisturizers and because of the formula mixed with the humidity my skin is left with a sticky feeling and I honestly hate that. This is the ingredient list for the moisturizer:
Water, Butylene Glycol, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Squalane, 1,2-Hexanediol, Behenyl Alcohol, Ammonium Acryloyldimethyltaurate/VP Copolymer, Avena Sativa (Oat) Meal Extract, Ethylhexylglycerin
So looking at this formula I was wondering how I could improve on it. So the thought of using Cetyl came to mind but Ive never worked with Behenyl Alcohol so I wasnt sure the difference. Im also trying to figure out their preservative system. Its obviously Ethylhexyglycerine, but its an open jar container. It cant possibly JUST be this ingredient? Could 1,2 Hexanediol be a booster? I have very sensitive skin and this formula is very no fuss and gentle but obviously Im just looking at it as a reference. -
Okay, you’ve got some highly spreading oils and a bunch of glycols (including EHG)… really sounds like a good recipe for humid climate.Regarding preservative strategy: butylene glycol lowers water activity, EHG is a booster and lowers water activity, and 1,2-hexanediol also lowers water activity and kills mainly moulds and yeasts (due to the low water activity, bacteria are of less concern). They all help with emulsification though they are not emulsifiers (oat meal extract is). Behenyl alcohol is probably in there for rheology/stability reasons by increasing oil phase viscosity. The role of water and polymer are obvious…From what I can see (I’m not a clairvoyant, I can’t see everything), that’s about the secret of your product. Hypothetically (and if you were undemanding regarding haptics), you could achieve the same result with glycerol, any ‘drying’ oil, water, and an emulsifier system of your choice.
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@Pharma Hmm then Im wondering if my re-formulating of this lotion (my take on it) may work. I dont have all the water activity ingredients so I will def need a preservative system. Do you think using Geogard ECT or the verstatile in a airless pump bottle would be sufficient? I know sometimes the “natural preservatives work best if air and fingers, water cant get to it. To share my formulation or to not share is the question?! haha Maybe I will just go for it. I wouldnt originally use an airless pump though…just in the final product.
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With an airless dispenser, Verstatil PC should do the trick (and it’s rather pH independent). Also, if you don’t introduce too much ‘naturals’ (bug food), you’ll be safe with that setup. BTW, it’s not natural but classified as ‘alternative preservative’.You don’t need all the water activity ingredients, you just need enough in terms of quantity (not numbers). Imagine you were to use just one at high rate but one is tacky, one is destabilising the emulsion, and one is greasy… so you take 1/3 of all three and get 100% effect but not enough adverse effects to scare off customers. What do you have? There are many ingredients available which lower water activity. Most commonly used ones are polyols such as glycerol, sorbitol, propylene glycol… one can even use sugar, betaine, urea, salt, PCA, sodium lactate… there’s a ton of small water soluble molecules which, as a side effect, reduce water activity to some extent. It’s harder to ‘calculate’ these (there are usually no tables available) but with a common hygrometer, it’s easy to do: Small pot filled with product in larger pot with hydrometer and tightly close it for a day or two. The resulting relative air humidity corresponds to water activity e.g. 100% rH = full water activity = pure water or 70% rH = water activity 0.7 = at worst a few rare fungi growing in head space (above/on the product). That’s just an example! You’ll find nice tables online which tell you at which rH what might grow and therefore, which preservative should be added.If you also get pH as far down as tolerable/feasible, quite a few more microbes won’t grow. Here again, you’ll find tables online.
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thanks so much I did order a few ingredients, a few new preservatives…I have seen sorbitol in lots of leave on conditioner products. Im formulating a leave in so I just started researching about sorbitol a bit. Good to know it helps lower water activity.
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